how do u wire double solonoid valve?

[Reaper40]

the double solonoid valve requires 24v and the spike can only take in 12V so i dont know what to do?

[mtaman02]

If I'm not mistaken doesn't the Solenoids get pluggend into one of the Digital / Analog inputs on the RC and then from the RC it goes to the Relay via a PWM Cable. It should be in the wiring schematic thats in the manual.


Edit: Ok so I was wrong on that one =) My bad!

[Chris_Elston]

You should change the coil to 12 VDC.

* You must remove the 24V coils from the solenoid valves and replace them with the grey 12V coils before installing them on your robot. This is done by removing the mounting screws, and switching the 24V coils for the 12V coils provided. More information about these valves is provided in the FIRST 2007 Pneumatics Manual posted on the FIRST website: http://www2.usfirst.org/2007comp/oth...s%20Manual.pdf


The SMC Pneumatics kits have been sent to your team’s Shipping Contact as entered in your TIMS record. The contents of the kits are listed below:

- QTY 1: Straight fitting, male, 5/32" tube, 1/8 NPT (PN KQ2H03-34S)
- QTY 1: Elbow fitting, 90, 5/32" tube, 1/8 NPT (PN KQ2L03-34S)
- QTY 5: Elbow fitting, 90, 1/4" tube (PN KQ2L07-34S)
- QTY 10: Straight fitting, 1/4" tube (PN KQH07-34S)
- QTY 10: Elbow fitting, 90, 1/4" tube (PN KQLO7-35S)
- QTY 5: Tee union, 1/4" tube (PN KQTO7-00)
- QTY 6: Flow control (PN NAS2201F-N01-07S)
- QTY 2: Sub base, 1/8” ports (PN SY3000-27-1T)
- *QTY 2: Double solenoid valve, 24VDC (PN SY3240)
- *QTY 1: Single solenoid valve, 24VDC (PN SY3140)
- *QTY 5: 12VDC replacement coils (PN SY114-6LOZ)

[caraddicted101]

We took both positive wires and attached them to the positive and negative connections on the spike. The negative wires from the solonoid go to the negative part of the breaker panel. This way when you apply power the air goes one way, and when you reverse the power the air goes backward.

[SuperBK]

Hi caraddicted101, Are you sure that's allowed? The wiring diagram shows both wires to a solenoid connected to a spike. Have you been through an inspection in previous years with it like that. I know, electrically its fine, just don't want to get stuck in inspection.
Brian

[FrontiEErsman]

Are any other teams doing this / thinking about doing this? I believe someone else on my team is posting a question to the Q & A, so hopefully we can get an official ruling.

[waialua359]

We have used it every year that we used pneumatics. It is very useful.
The two wires go to the positive and negative ends of the spike. Single solenoids only provide a momentary switching which is useful for some applications but not for something such as a claw to grab ringers.
Just depends on the application.
The manual is very clear on how to wire.

[dpc131]

I was looking into this today to see if I could use 1 double action solenoid to control two different cylinders. In the past, we had wired them by connecting the negatives to ground. Then I found that the Spike User guide states it that way also. http://www.ifirobotics.com/docs/spik...uide-sep05.pdf

[jcatt]

My team and i have a question. Can you connect both negative ends of the valve to the same crimp terminal to save space on the fuse pannel. The wire is so small of awg that "electricaly" it would be possibe, BUT is it allowed in the rules.

[Jake M]

We also have played with wiring both parts of the valves to a single spike, although, you can't simply put the positive of one and negative of the other into one end of the spike and the negative of the first one and the positive of the second into the other end of the spike. Oddly, if you wire one end of the valve backwards (positive to the black wire and ground to the red) it still works as if you wired it correctly, which means no matter which way the spike is sending voltage, both sides are active and fighting against each other. At least that's how it works with the valve we're using. So, you either need to use some diodes to prevent backwards current, or my idea.

The idea I came up with, and I'm probably not the only one, is to wire the positive of one side of the valve to M+ of the spike and the positive of the other side to M-. Then wire the negatives of both ends of the valve to a separate wire, which goes straight to ground on the power distribution panel. You still need both a negative and a positive input to the spike, to keep it running. There must be a capacitor on the spike, because it will work once and only once without a negative input.

Anyway, is it legal to run both ends of a valve from one spike? I know rule R91 says, "Each motor, actuator, and compressor must be connected to one, and only one, speed controller or relay module." Does each end of the valve count as one acutator, or does the valve as a whole count as one? Secondly, is there anything wrong with my solution to running a valve from one spike?

[Transformers]

It is clear in the Spike manual linked above that what you said is a legal option for wiring the double solenoid. However, does anyone have any ideas on how to mount it onto the robot as that is also a regulation. also, does anyone know what the side threaded openings labeled "X" and "PE" are? I was thinking they might be vents for exaust but then what would the "EB" and "EA" openings be for? any suggestions? Thanks!

[Andy Brockway]

Originally Posted by Transformers

It is clear in the Spike manual linked above that what you said is a legal option for wiring the double solenoid. However, does anyone have any ideas on how to mount it onto the robot as that is also a regulation. also, does anyone know what the side threaded openings labeled "X" and "PE" are? I was thinking they might be vents for exaust but then what would the "EB" and "EA" openings be for? any suggestions? Thanks!

"X" and "PE" are not used. "EA" and "EB" are the exhaust for the A and B ports. They do not need anything hooked up to them.

You can run a secondary regulator between the main regulator and the P port for both A and B regulation or in series after A or B for regulating the pressure on just one side of the cylinder. The flow regulators go on the cylinder and control flow out of the cylinder.

We also wire the red leads (one each) to the M+ and M- on the spike and run the blacks together to the negative part of the breaker panel.

[Mr. E]

Infuriating....
I also needed to wire a double solenoid valve and used the above suggestionis.

I can only move the piston out, however.
Can any body help?

[kmcclary]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Infuriating....
I also needed to wire a double solenoid valve and used the above suggestionis.

I can only move the piston out, however.
Can any body help?

If you connected the SMC dual coils as Andy (and the IFI doc) suggested above (M+ to red of one coil, M- to red of second coil, and both blacks to ground), THEN it is most likely a switch wiring, or programming problem. (See below for more details.)

The SMC dual coil is a "spool valve". It works by shifting a shuttle back and forth, so only one coil should be on at a time. Without vibration, it can "remember" the last state if both coils are off, but since the coils are rated for continuous energization, it's safer to simply keep one or the other on at any time. They only pull about an amp, so that's not too much drain.

HOWEVER, if both coils are turned on at the same time, the state is "indeterminant". It probably will stay in the previous state, but that's not guaranteed if one coil is slightly stronger than the other.

In your case, I'm guessing one or more of the following things happened, as these are the most common mistakes:
1) The valves aren't wired as stated above.
2) Someone forgot to change one of the two 24VDC coils to 12VDC on the valve
3) You have a program bug (I'm assuming you're mapping a switch or two)
-a) Your switches are not wired to the OI correctly
-b) You're reading the wrong switch on the OI
-c) The logic of mapping the switch to relay outputs is incorrect
-d) The wrong relay port(s) were written (you should be talking to a FOWARD and a REVERSE on a SINGLE relay port)
-e) You didn't turn off one coil when you turned the other on.
<edit>
4) There's a power problem with the Spike (no power, breaker failure, miswired Spike power leads, etc..)
5) Defective Spike - one side is dead (it happens!)
6) Damaged wiring, breaking the circuit
</edit>

For wiring, the most common wiring is to use one button bit on the OI. Connect a SPST (single pole, single throw) switch from that bit to ground. The software then looks at the switch state, and on the SAME relay either:
A) turn FWD on and REV off
OR ELSE
B) turn REV on and FWD off

This technique will energize one and only one coil, and keep that one on to insure it stays in that state until you select the other one.

<edit>
Another trick: Take a PWM cable, and make a "monitor block" in the middle. Separate the three wires in the middle of the cable from each other. Strip back a little insulation on each wire, enough to circle them around the screws on a three terminal barrier strip. This "extension cable" now allows you access to each of the three wires in a pwm cable for voltage testing, or an oscilloscope connection. This in turn allows you to quickly check both PWM/Victor signals, AND Spike relay signals to see if your problem is in the spike & valve (or Victor & Motor) hardware, or with OI switches & programming.
</edit>


I hope this helps you diagnose your problem. Please let us know what you found!

Note to other people --- The main difference in application between the single and the double coil valves are:
A) Single coil valves are normally used when you want the coil to SWITCH TO a SPECIFIC STATE when the power goes off.
B) Double coil valves are used when you want the coil to REMAIN in the LAST SET STATE when the power goes off.

Examples:
- Use a SINGLE coil valve on a pneumatic gripper's "pinch" axis, to guarantee it OPENS at the end of the round, to potentially score that last point while you were busy focusing on positioning your robot to score and forgot to open the gripper before that last panic second. (For this game, there are ways to insure it still holds onto a Keeper while awaiting autonomous startup, but I'll leave that as an exercise for you...)

- Use a DOUBLE coil valve on a ramp deployment cylinder, so it starts in the retracted state, but then STAYS OUT and not tries to fold up again when the power ends.

I hope this answers most of your questions.

- Keith McClary
Chief Engineer, Team 1502 "Technical Difficulties"

[Travis Hoffman]

Here is a link to more information on solenoid programming:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...58&postcount=3