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Unread 21-02-2007, 22:05
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

Guys,

this has been the rule for at least two years. FIRST just reworded the rule to try to make it more clear. I guess it worked. I was an announcer at many regionals the last few years and the rule was very specific to the refs: Only one timeout during any given use. If blue takes theirs, then red would have to wait until after the next match. This has been the rule ... so you can't get around it even if you lie and say you need it, too. Only one timeout at a time.

-Paul
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Unread 21-02-2007, 22:08
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
Guys,

this has been the rule for at least two years. FIRST just reworded the rule to try to make it more clear. I guess it worked. I was an announcer at many regionals the last few years and the rule was very specific to the refs: Only one timeout during any given use. If blue takes theirs, then red would have to wait until after the next match. This has been the rule ... so you can't get around it even if you lie and say you need it, too. Only one timeout at a time.

-Paul
Then the refs were just lax the times I saw teams do this last year and the year before? Wow.

EDIT: As is not the case with many of my posts, this one is not intended to have any sarcasm at all. I am just astounded that a rule was so openly defied. I guess it's probably because a lot of people *myself included* had no Idea that this rule existed with this intent. Thank you, Paul, for pointing out that it has existed for two years.
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Last edited by Cody Carey : 21-02-2007 at 23:48.
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Unread 22-02-2007, 09:49
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

After the allotted 6 minutes expire, the alliance does have the opportunity to call on a substitute team, correct? So it should always be 3 on 3, not 3 on 2.5. If that alliance goes on to win, there would be 4 champs, the three originals and the sub, right?
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Unread 22-02-2007, 10:19
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

Actually a team only has 4 minutes of their allotted timeout to determine if they need to call on their backup team, because they have to turn in their backup team coupon with at least two minutes remaining.

From what has been posted, it is my understanding that this has been the rule for at least two years now. I also know that their were cases last year where cascading time-outs were allowed. I find it interesting that refs would knowingly ignore a rule and that it would be mentioned during kickoff this year as a fine example of GP. I believe this rule goes against GP and the spirit of the games and I'd like to see it changed.



<T21> If during a TIME-OUT an ALLIANCE CAPTAIN determines that they need to call up a
BACKUP TEAM, they must submit their BACKUP TEAM coupon to the Head Referee
while there is still at least two minutes remaining on the Time-out Clock.
After that point,
they will not be allowed to utilize the BACKUP TEAM. Alternatively, an ALLIANCE
CAPTAIN may choose to call up a BACKUP TEAM without using their TIME-OUT by
informing the Head Referee directly within two minutes of the Head Referee issuing the
Field Reset Signal preceding their match.
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Unread 22-02-2007, 12:07
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by theun4gven View Post
I find it interesting that refs would knowingly ignore a rule and that it would be mentioned during kickoff this year as a fine example of GP. I believe this rule goes against GP and the spirit of the games and I'd like to see it changed.
Many of the Refs have been refs for years. Cascading timeouts have been common and indeed practically expected for years. I know that at least one instance occured in the dark ages before Alliances. It is not suprising that a field crew should over look this rule, because we are creatures of habit. Unless somebody specifically pointed it out, it would be easy to miss. The wording last year was also less than clear.

This year they decided to make real sure that EVERYBODY paid attention to a rule that all hoped would never be needed. That is why they brought it up at Kickoff, to make it unavoidable.

Speaking as a competitor, I am sad to see the opportunity for this gesture go away. My team has personally benefited from this behavior. When I thanked the other Alliance for it they replied "But you would have done the same for us" and they were probably right.

But now that I am more involved with organizing the event, I see more clearly how the extra time outs are drags on the audience's patience. I don't know about your teams but we have huge family support. Everybody comes, from 8-week old younger siblings to grandparents. It is hard for some of them to sit through 15 minutes with nothing happening.

Having awards in between matches helps a lot, but those have to be scheduled as well. You can't just say "hey they just called another time-out, bring up the Animation awards early" That messes up the planned "fillers" for the later matches where they are more needed.

The competition is a show, it has to move to have legs. Dead time for any reason has to be avoided. That is why they put in the rule last year and why they made it more clear this year. While it is certainly Gracious to your opponent to allow them more time for repairs, is it Professional to do so? or Gracious to the audience? These things also need to be considered.
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Unread 22-02-2007, 12:28
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Re: Elimination Time-Outs: or Gracious Professionalism vs. The Schedule

Over this years, giving the other alliance your timeout has turned from a very gracious action, to a basically expected one. Honestly you do not really have a choice, because if you DIDNT give them your timeout you were being "un-GP".

I have given another alliance our timeout to let them compete and it is a good thing, but I think FIRST is right in making this rule. Its not right for teams that do not need to use their timeouts to have to give theirs up to make them not look like jerks.

As unfortunate as it may be to have your robot breakdown and not be completely repaired by the end of your timeout, its just the way life is sometimes.

Given if the other alliance is still in it after completing a match without full functionality, you are probably going to give up your timeout anyway...

Good luck everyone.
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