Is Defense key to this game?

[xzvrw2]

Look at how 1444 45 829 beat 148 217 2133. With the ramp. They didnt score very many ringers, but once you get two 'bots 12" up off the ground, thats 60 points. It's like getting the 30pt penalty in 2005, one you get it the games over. I think that defence or scoring ringers wont really matter untill the championship of the championships down in Atlanta. Down in Atlanta, every alliance in the elims will have two awesome scorers and one ramp bot that can hold two. that ramp bot will not hold a ringer but play defence and shut down the other two awesome scorers. Then at the end of the match, the teams will go up onto the ramps. That will be the stradegy. Then maybe it will come down to the scorers, but as of right now, ramp bots rule all.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by xzvrw2

Look at how 1444 45 829 beat 148 217 2133. With the ramp. They didnt score very many ringers, but once you get two 'bots 12" up off the ground, thats 60 points. It's like getting the 30pt penalty in 2005, one you get it the games over. I think that defence or scoring ringers wont really matter untill the championship of the championships down in Atlanta. Down in Atlanta, every alliance in the elims will have two awesome scorers and one ramp bot that can hold two. that ramp bot will not hold a ringer but play defence and shut down the other two awesome scorers. Then at the end of the match, the teams will go up onto the ramps. That will be the stradegy. Then maybe it will come down to the scorers, but as of right now, ramp bots rule all.

Just remember, it takes 3 to tango to get 2 @ 12. Alliance partners must be ready to ditch the rack area and ramp with a bit of time to spare. No need to cut it so close. If the alliance did its job around the rack, it successfully hung a few strategic ringers to prevent a 5-row or more, maybe even built up a 3-row for the alliance, so there's no need to score a few relatively worthless ringers when there's 60 points to be had on the ramp. There's gold in them thar hills!

This emphasizes the need for CONSTANT COMMUNICATION between alliance teams during a match! You must not only learn to talk, but to LISTEN to what others are saying as the match is progressing.

[Paul Copioli]

The one thing you missed is that 217 was on their side for all of the first finals match and our arm was broken for the last 1/2 of the second finals match. The ramp didn't beat our alliance, their more robust robots beat our alliance. Each robot on their alliance did one thing well and performed their task per their strategy.

Congratulations to the 1444, 45, and 829 alliance on their great win.

By the way, look out for 148. They are a really, really fast ringer that can score through defense.

[koolguy8907]

i agree with "Dominicano0519" i drove the robot he talking about and all we had was a moving box that can push. It came in handy when setting picks and protecting ur alliances robots if the other alliance goes after them. Plus all we had to do was get in front of our opponent robot and eith push them or the ringer there are after. A defensive is real good to have on a team but it need to be real special....... "381" ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

The one thing you missed is that 217 was on their side for all of the first finals match and our arm was broken for the last 1/2 of the second finals match. The ramp didn't beat our alliance, their more robust robots beat our alliance. Each robot on their alliance did one thing well and performed their task per their strategy.

Congratulations to the 1444, 45, and 829 alliance on their great win.

By the way, look out for 148. They are a really, really fast ringer that can score through defense.

I totally agree with this based on personally being on an alliance that made it as a 7th seed to the finals. It was the key to being able to successfully beat the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the playoffs.
They had awesome scoring, no question......however, very and I mean VERY few teams will be able to score 6++ ringers if one or two robots are defending you. It has been proven in 99% of the matches (i.e. not including team 25) that those teams may only score 1 or 2 at most.
Thus the ramp bot is the X-factor.

If I was in the top seed, and there were only 1 or 2 effective, reliable ramp bots (60 point max capability), i would take them over the next best ringer scorer. Top seeds may get their great second scorers in the first round of selections if they choose so, but at the lower seeding teams expense of picking the best rampbots in the second round.

When both the robots, defenders defending and the rack moves, it presents some really tough situations in trying to score. Any decent scorer can score 7+ ringers with no opposition and lots of practice.

[themagichat]

If I was in the top seed, and there were only 1 or 2 effective, reliable ramp bots (60 point max capability), i would take them over the next best ringer scorer. Top seeds may get their great second scorers in the first round of selections if they choose so, but at the lower seeding teams expense of picking the best rampbots in the second round.

From my experience this year the rampbots haven't played that big of a role. Most teams with the double robot capacity take too much time to set up. At the NJ regional most teams with 2 ramps only ended up with one on top at the end. It is also not always reliable considering that ringers are getting in the way in the home zone.

[waialua359]

it worked well in getting us to the finals past the #2 and #3 seeded teams.

[+()c|D]

I think that defense will play a very big role in this game because the good alliances will have the robots tag-teaming from offence to defense non-stop, which should keep the other alliance from scoring...

but who really knows?

Lets ask Dean

[artdutra04]

This game goes much deeper than many think.

Every time I see another match video, I keep coming back to one thing. Not Triple Play anymore, but FIRST Frenzy! That year, you could win if you had an amazing small ball bot with a dynamic human player who could score most of their shots. 10 balls in the stationary goal at 5 points a piece was 50 points, a decent score in that game. But that wasn't the only way to win. A hanging robot for 50 points was a good shot at a win, but if the other alliance hung as well, the +50 lead is now negated. The same could be said for the 2x ball, which could easily negate up to two hanging robots, but could also be descored by the opposing alliance.

This year's game is much the same. A ramp bot can win some matches, but if they are also a defensive bot, then in the 30 seconds at the end of the match the other alliance is now relatively free to score on the rack. A tube scorer, if able to out maneuver defense, can easily negate a defense bot if they are in the upper echelon of teams, or if the entire alliance of tube scorers works together.

Ramp bots on each alliance can negate other ramp bots on the opposing alliance. If each alliance has no tubes scored from heavy defense, but each also has 2@12", then those points are well pointless, because now you have a tie. It's the same as one hanging robot from each alliance in 2004: the net point change is still 0. (A tie is still better than a loss, but it's not a win.)

What you want in this year's game is a net change of +points. Defense can do this, if your alliance has a way of accumulating points (whether through tubes or through end zone bonus'). But if your alliance cannot reliably score points in some fashion and only relies upon defense, you cannot win. The best you can do is tie.

So it actually takes offense for defense to win. Who wuddathunkit?

[Scobrien]

Originally Posted by waialua359

If I was in the top seed, and there were only 1 or 2 effective, reliable ramp bots (60 point max capability), i would take them over the next best ringer scorer.

I think it really depends on how many the second best scorer can score. If the alliance can play good defense for them while they are scoring 7/8 tubes on the rack, those points alone would be worth more than the 60 pt. bonus.

With that, if one robot in an alliance had a single ramp, then at the end of the match two could do the ramp thing while the third was still scoring to the end.

In any case, when we (2177) were allied with 148 in the practice rounds, they had a more anti-ramp strategy. The only reason they didn't win in the finals was because they were getting blocked out, but if there were robots in their alliance keeping the opposition away, the number of ringers scored would beat any 60 pt bonus from a double ramp.

Still, I don't know how many teams can score 8+ with good defense...