2007 St. Louis Regional

[RoboPhantom]

Can anybody explain how team 1747 got to pick Alliance #8 ahead of team 1329? When you take out 1747's 9th match, they both had 5 and 3 records, with 1329 hoding the ranking score tiebreaker advantage.

Since it was our goal to finally get to the finals this year, I'm just wondering if we actually would have, except for a scoring snafu.

I've been working the numbers all afternoon, and I just can't make sense of the scoring. Any help appreciated. I'm actually hoping I'm wrong. Either way it was a great regional. Contrats to everybody!

Thanks,
Jeff Holland
Team 1329

[Richard Wallace]

Jeff, when you take out 1747's surrogate (9th) match they have the same QS as 1329 (both have 5-3 records) and their ranking score goes to 10.76 (the incorrectly reported 9.56 was calculated by dividing their total unpenalized opponents scores by 9 instead of 8). So they edge you out by half a ranking point.

-----------------------------

Wow. What a regional! What a final! I'll post some pictures later; watching the alliance of 148/217/2133 put up 7-rows was a real inspiration. Elegant and efficient machines, well operated, well strategized. They showed us how this game is supposed to be played.

In the end they couldn't quite handle the incredible combination of rack scoring, defense, and rampsmanship displayed by 1444/45/829, and it is fair to say that the unfortunate snagging of 217's arm in F1 was too much for the #1 alliance to overcome.

Congratulations to repeat St. Louis Regional Winners 1444 and their partners 45 and 839.

Congrats also to all of the award winners and especially to 461 for Engineering Inspiration and Website Awards. Special props to Jerry Budd for handling the scoring with grace under pressure.

And congrats to 1985 for an amazing robot and a well deserved Rookie All Star Award. Now there is another Emerson-sponsored team in town, and they are starting very strong.

Once again I want to tell the CD/FIRST community that I am very proud of my team, 931 Perpetual Chaos, for taking home their second St. Louis Regional Chairman's Award in three years. They built a solid robot that scored well and seeded 6th. And although our alliance (1502/931/1182) was overwhelmed in QF2 (awesome lifter, 1625) I am still very proud of their competitiveness. Watch for them at future events: Boilermaker, Atlanta, IRI.

Special thanks to Mark Koors, of TechnoKat and AndyMark fame, for making my rookie experience as an FTA run smoothly. Since Mark prefers to remain behind the scenes, some folks on CD may enjoy seeing a rare photo of him with the winning alliance in the background, attached below.

[hillale]

Originally Posted by Luckyfish05

Can some one explain to me what just happened there? The Score was 0-0 and going to a rubbermatch. Then the score was reversed to 14-0? I have to say I'm confused. What reversed it?

The referee's made the decision, after posting the 0-0 score on the screen, that a tube can be unscored and scored simultaneously. With that 5th tube in a row, that gave them 34 points with -20 in penalties. At first they didn't count that 5th tube because the robot never released it onto the rack. it was in contact with the robot until the end game buzzer went off. However after further contemplation they gave them the tube. Our team went down to question the call, but the ref's weren't able to give us a firm answer, just that what happened stands.

[meatmanek]

I wasn't watching 148 while that happened, so I can't comment on their actions during the match, but:

Seems to me if the refs are going to penalize them for descoring a tube, it implies that the tube was scored in the first place. The rules clearly state that a descored tube still counts, and the head ref even made an announcement on Friday to that effect.

Hence the 14-0 score.

[efoote868]

Congratulations to all teams on a great effort; way to represent Indiana!!!!
boilermaker is going to be tough, and I'm looking forward to it.

[Idaman323]

Congrats to 1444, 45, 829! I wasn't sure if they were going to pull it off, but this just shows, with a good defense and a ramp made for two robots, you can pull off a win.

(217 getting tangled up and falling also didn't help them in the first round)

[Luckyfish05]

Originally Posted by meatmanek

I wasn't watching 148 while that happened, so I can't comment on their actions during the match, but:

Seems to me if the refs are going to penalize them for descoring a tube, it implies that the tube was scored in the first place. The rules clearly state that a descored tube still counts, and the head ref even made an announcement on Friday to that effect.

Hence the 14-0 score.

Thanks for the Clarification! The webcast cut out during the match, so I came back to them looking at the tube and then I was doing something else (suppose to be studying, probably just being distracted) and didn't hear why. Those rules are good to know! Thanks again.

[RoboPhantom]

Originally Posted by Richard

Jeff, when you take out 1747's surrogate (9th) match they have the same QS as 1329 (both have 5-3 records) and their ranking score goes to 10.76 (the incorrectly reported 9.56 was calculated by dividing their total unpenalized opponents scores by 9 instead of 8). So they edge you out by half a ranking point.

Thanks, Richard. I was doing the math wrong when I took out the 9th match. Congrats to the scorers for getting the hand recalculation right under extreme pressure!

One other question. What determined who got a 9th match? I'm assuming it's either random draw or order of registration. I'm also not sure why those 4 extra rounds were even played, since it seems to put those bots unnecessarily at risk of damage just before the elimination rounds.

Jeff

[Grant Cox]

Originally Posted by hillale

The referee's made the decision, after posting the 0-0 score on the screen, that a tube can be unscored and scored simultaneously. With that 5th tube in a row, that gave them 34 points with -20 in penalties. At first they didn't count that 5th tube because the robot never released it onto the rack. it was in contact with the robot until the end game buzzer went off. However after further contemplation they gave them the tube. Our team went down to question the call, but the ref's weren't able to give us a firm answer, just that what happened stands.

Here's the clarification I can give; if a tube is still in contact with a robot at the end of a round, it is considered that the bot is descoring it (which uses the "if the robot were to disappear, would the tube fall" rule). Descoring a tube still leaves that tube valid for points, although it is also a 10 point penalty (edit: yeah basically what meatmanek said). As soon as the scores went up, both myself and 148's driver went up to question the call, only to be told that the refs were aware already and were working to change it.

Originally Posted by Idaman323

(217 getting tangled up and falling also didn't help them in the first round)

Yeahh... our whole arm/grabber structure was already not in very good shape, and the tangle/fall did not help at all.


On behalf of team 217, I would like to congratulate 45, 829, and 1444 on their performance. We knew it was going to be an incredible couple of matches, and you never let up. I'd also like to extend a special thanks to 148 and 2133; you guys were aaawwesome. 2133, although they were a rookie team, put up some great defense, and 148's ridiculous scoring abilities couldn't have been better. Good luck to all in the future and we'll see you guys at Nats

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by RoboPhantom

One other question. What determined who got a 9th match? I'm assuming it's either random draw or order of registration. I'm also not sure why those 4 extra rounds were even played, since it seems to put those bots unnecessarily at risk of damage just before the elimination rounds.

I'll try to go back and look. At the time I assumed that at least some of the teams in the later matches were appearing for their eighth time. I didn't watch (although I am fairly certain that some of the top scouts did) to see which of the teams were playing as surrogates and which were still going for QS and RS.

[Paul Copioli]

One clarification for you "ramp + defense" advocates: It was not the ramp + defense robots that clinched it for the winning alliance ... it was effective execution of a strategy and making simple, robust robots that won the match. 2 functioning ringer robots are hard to stop especially if you leave them alone at during the last 20 - 30 seconds when you are trying to get on the ramp.

We skimped on certan parts of our arm and, as it turns out, we were not robust enough to survive the entire elimination rounds. Our arm was crippled after the semi-finals and the crash in Finals 1 did us in. We were not able to lift high after that, which is our strong suit.

The simple, reliable, and effective robots of 1444, 45, and 829 beat our alliance; but don't jump on the defense + ramp bandwagon so soon .....

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by RoboPhantom

One other question. What determined who got a 9th match? I'm assuming it's either random draw or order of registration. I'm also not sure why those 4 extra rounds were even played, since it seems to put those bots unnecessarily at risk of damage just before the elimination rounds.

With the curious scheduling algorithm in use this year, don't bet on it being very random—though historically, it was by random selection. Also, as the extra risk goes, that's just something you have to be willing to accept. The possibility of surrogate matches is mentioned in the rules, so teams should be aware that they may be called upon.

[Chris Fultz]

1444, 45, 829!

Congrats 1444, 45 and 829 - Awesome "Indiana" showing!

Can someone tell us who won the WFA? The FIRST site just says Harrison - 1747.

[RoboPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

With the curious scheduling algorithm in use this year, don't bet on it being very random—though historically, it was by random selection. Also, as the extra risk goes, that's just something you have to be willing to accept. The possibility of surrogate matches is mentioned in the rules, so teams should be aware that they may be called upon.

Don't get me wrong... I think extra matches are great. I'm just wondering if it's normal for 4 complete matches containing nothing but "surrogates" is a normal occurance at a FIRST regional. Also wondering if the teams (and the spectators) knew or should have known that these were basically practice rounds and nobody had anything to gain or lose in the last 4 matches.

Jeff

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

1444, 45, 829!

Congrats 1444, 45 and 829 - Awesome "Indiana" showing!

Can someone tell us who won the WFA? The FIRST site just says Harrison - 1747.

Allison Babcock of 1747 won the WFA. It's very rare when a college mentor has won it, so congrats to her and their whole team.

I'd just like to thank everyone at the St. Louis Regional, especially the St. Louis volunteer coordinator Mike Gambill for giving me a shot at being MC - I had a blast and I hope everyone else did as a result too.

Congratulations to Richard of 931 for winning the volunteer award and to 931 for winning the Chairman's Award.

All in all, I thought the regional went very smoothly for being in week 1 - there were minimal glitches with the field which helped to keep things moving and on time.

Thanks again to everyone who made it happen.