Veteran Teams have No Advantage

[The Lucas]

If anyone needs raw data from last year, I attached a zipped xml file that has all the regional stats. It can be viewed in excel. I generated it with my FIRSTXML program. I really need to update FIRST XML for this years regionals.

[Guy Davidson]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

If anyone needs raw data from last year, I attached a zipped xml file that has all the regional stats. It can be viewed in excel. I generated it with my FIRSTXML program. I really need to update FIRST XML for this years regionals.

I'll take a look it this soon, but you might have just saved me and another team member a lot of manual labor.

Thanks!

Guy

[Lil' Lavery]

Because the controversial scheduling system is in place, all this shows that the desired effect of the system was achieved. Every match a low number team won, a low number team lost.
This data is meaningless.
Also, I am in no way supporting the existing scheduling algorithm.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Because the controversial scheduling system is in place, all this shows that the desired effect of the system was achieved. Every match a low number team won, a low number team lost.
This data is meaningless.

Outstanding work.
Hypothetically, say two very low numbered teams (0.1 and 0.2) are in the same regional. They are also the best teams at the regional. They are very close to each other in competition, but far and away from any other team there. According to the algorithm, it would be safe to say that 0.1 and 0.2 play each other quite a bit, and it would not be out of the question that they both end up with a .500 record.
Given the current algorithm, that would mean the two best teams aren't even close to being captains.
Not fair by a long shot. (However, being a 4-digit team ourselves, we're not complaining)
Hopefully this year the scouts will do a good job and evaluate each team by their capabilities and potential rather than their win-loss record, and the cream will rise to the top come Elimination time.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Because the controversial scheduling system is in place, all this shows that the desired effect of the system was achieved. Every match a low number team won, a low number team lost.
This data is meaningless.
Also, I am in no way supporting the existing scheduling algorithm.

You raise a good point about the match scheduling system at the first weekend regionals ensuring that every match a low numbered team won, a low numbered team also lost, however that doesn't make the data meaningless. It may mean precisely what you suggest when you say "the desired effect of the system was achieved".... which is a meaningful conclusion.

If we run a similar analysis after the second weekend regionals and see a correlation between team number and qualifying success it will demonstrate that at first weekend regionals there was an artificial barrier to the win/loss record of some teams, and will have some more solid evidence to back up the "common sense" idea that veteran teams do have an advantage -- in general -- over newer teams. Something that -- frankly -- I'm okay with. There should be some benefit to years of hard work... not an insurmountable or overwhelming benefit, but some benefit at least.

Thanks to everyone who has joined in with ideas, thoughts and suggestions -- particularly the statistics and observations from previous years. I'm looking forward to seeing what this weekend brings as it looks like FIRST is moving quickly to resolve this particular issue.

Jason

[65_Xero_Huskie]

I would not base anything off of this year. This year is just starting and the "veteran" teams have many competitions to go to. I would personally base any information off of the championships, for any year. If you are a good team then you will strut your stuff in the finals. All teams who have a good robot will have a good team. Not all veteran teams have good teamwork, but they do have the experience of doing this kind of thing over and over. I really want the rookie teams to shine this year which is what keeps the FIRST spirit strong.

[Ian Curtis]

At BAE, 58 scored the most game pieces (20) on Friday. 1276 scored the next most (18). Then came 1307 (16) and 1073 (13). Then there was 175 (12).

All of these teams are at least at the end of a high school cycle. 58 was a rookie just before '98. 1276 and 1307 were rookies in 2004. 1073 has at least five years experience (maybe 6), Buzz was a rookie in '96.

I don't see a whole lot of correlation here, other than all of these teams have at least 4 years under their belt. BAE is pretty heavy with old teams, so this data may be weighted. I would say veteran teams should have an advantage, put after your third year, you've had the opportunity to learn as much as you need to be competative (with experienced mentors, this knowledge should come even quicker).