<R14> (Team Numbers)

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

...Is FIRST kidding??? We actually have to have our team numbers ALWAYS visable on 4 sides even if there is an alliance partner robot parked on top of us covering our number??? Does anyone know what the actual penalty is if a referee can't see a team number on all 4 sides because a robot is parked on your lift/ramp that has your team number on it? Has anyone been called on this? This seems a bit ridiculous.

Chuck,

What is ridiculous? Is it the fact that FIRST enforces a rule that has been posted in the rules and unchanged since Jan 6th or that your team designed a robot that can not meet the rules?

Team numbers serve a number of purposes and it goes beyond allowing spectators and judges to identify your robot. If a robot needs to be disabled during a match, how does the referee tell which robot to disable?

I suppose that a workaround to this "ridiculous" rule would be to disable all alliance robots for a safety infraction by a single partner... Would this be less ridiculous to you?

Regards,

Mike

[ChrisMcK2186]

At VCU, my team applied the numbers to the bumpers. Somehow they were applied upside down on one side but the ref never called it. I believe that he is saying it is ludacris that the numbers should be able to move around any obstacles in its path. At VCU, several teams deployed ramps, making the #'s not viewable but the judges knew who they were b/c they didnt move after deployment.

Chris

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

What is ridiculous?

<R14> must be met at all times.

Our robot can meet the rule as long as someone isn't parked on our ramps and blocking the team numbers. What I find rediculous is that apparently FIRST thinks that if a robot is blocking your team number and a ref can't see your team number on all sides at all times then it is somehow your fault and a violation of <R14>. This is an impossible rule to meet at all times. How can we design a robot such that the team numbers are ALWAYS visible since your robot probably isn't transparent? This blanket statement by whoever answers the Q&A is a bit extreme. You know as well as I do that in the course of normal play there are plenty of times when another robot is blocking the view of your robot but now this is somehow your fault? I understand if the intent is as Sean first stated. That makes sense and should be no problem for us. It would appear, however, from watching some of the webcasts that there are plenty of examples of robots parked on top of other robots blocking robot numbers which would seem to me a normal course of play but according to this Q&A response would be a violation of <R14>. My question was, is this actually drawing some sort of penalty at the comps and if so what is it? I never saw it called in the little bit of webcast I had a chance to catch and was wondering if this is something we need to worry about.

[Nate Laverdure]

Woah, cool down!

I understand your concern-- this has always been a tough requirement to meet. However, I think you misinterpreted this rule. I read it as several others have tried to explain it: this is about numbers that change locations on your own robot, not numbers that are blocked from view by another robot.

Here's how I read the Q&A, line by line:
<R14> must be met at all times. And the refs will penalize you if it isn't. Or maybe not. Refer to the posts above.
If a robot lifting device is designed such that one or more of the team numbers are no longer visible when it is deployed, this would not be meet the requirements of Rule <R14>. If you have your team number on a ramp or lifting device, then it must also be visible when the device is deployed. As Sean said above, this rule does not imply that the team number must also be visible when another robot is blocking one's view. I think you are confusing "deployed" with "in use."
If another instance of the number became visible on that same side of the robot after deployment, this would be in compliance with Rule <R14>. Imagine a cube with the team number written on both the side facing you and the top. Now roll the cube toward you 90*. Notice that "another instance" of the team number has come into view.

Hope this clears things up.

[ChuckDickerson]

Thank you all for the responses and for the record I don't see this as a big problem. I was only concerned by the wording including "all times" when "deployed". As far as I know, most if not all of the ramps/lifts this year must be considered "deployed" when "in use". I read the Q&A to imply "Thou shall not put your team numbers on your ramp/lift because the number could be blocked from view at some point by another robot and would thus be a violation of <R14>." Hopefully the refs will apply the common sense rule on this one and everything will be fine. I just didn't want to get to competition and find out that we were disqualified from that 60 point lift because one of our numbers were hidden under a lifted bot. I would rather know now that this could be an issue and we can fix it on Thursday with some more Lexan and numbers. I appologize if any of my wording has come across as too harsh. I didn't mean it that way.

[GaryVoshol]

The concern is not that the number is hidden by another robot, but by something the robot itself does. For instance, if the number is on the bumper and then the ramp covers the bumper when deployed, the number could not be seen.

If we had to worry about numbers being blocked by anything else, most robots would be illegal at the start of the match, as the number is pushed up against the diamondplate.