Drill presses and bandsaws back in the pits

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If you worry about getting bumped while using a band saw, chances are you'd still get bumped if you were using a jigsaw.

If you get bumped while using a bandsaw, your fingers can get cut off. If you get bumped while using a jigsaw, you might break the jigsaw blade. Jigsaw blades are expendable...fingers are not.

You could probably find a different example for comparing the safety of the two ways of sawing that would be more favorable to your argument (the problem of finding a way to safely clamp a piece for cutting with a jigsaw comes to mind)

(Which is 100% more productive and inspiring than telling students to walk over to the machine shop, hand the people working there a part, and having the finished part handed back to them!)

I would be VERY impressed with a student who could make a drawing and present it to a machinist, and have the finished part be made such that it could be attatched to the robot with no additional work. That's what engineering is all about.

But one of these days our team will have some neat machinery, and my attitude will change.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I would be VERY impressed with a student who could make a drawing and present it to a machinist, and have the finished part be made such that it could be attatched to the robot with no additional work. That's what engineering is all about.

But one of these days our team will have some neat machinery, and my attitude will change.

This sort of thing happens all the time on many teams. Our robot was almost entirely machined from drawings (At a local community college and by Northrop Grumman Machinists) and very few parts had to be adjusted to fit. Mainly just some filing to take off a few thousandths.

I don't want to make assumptions so I won't name teams, but I bet there are a good number whose students have this ability.

[Pavan Dave]

I am very disappointed at this rule. I can say that although I have had a change of heart towards the game, this rule bothered me quite a bit. At bayou there were a few pits with these banned tools but I think that it was irresponsible of them to only think in their best interests. I don't think it would be a big problem if they had a separate station where only certain people could use the equipment, but the NASA machinists should not be bothered for the smallest things IMO. They have talents with their lathes and mills and do not need us to detract them and waste their time on pulling down a band saw for us. Hopefully next year, they could add a separate station where we could use these tools and I do not think many of us would mind if we were allowed to set up the equipment but let "FIRST Selected" operators push the button, because quite frankly it would be much faster, and when you are at a competition, time is precious.

Pavan.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I would be VERY impressed with a student who could make a drawing and present it to a machinist, and have the finished part be made such that it could be attatched to the robot with no additional work. That's what engineering is all about.

What's even more impressive is when a student can make such a drawing, and present it to another student, who then makes said part.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

What's even more impressive is when a student can make such a drawing, and present it to another student, who then makes said part.

yeah, that's even better! Doing that during the stress of having to get the robot working thursday afternoon is an added bonus....and kind of what is the issue here.

I can easily see both sides of the machines-in-the-pits issue. I certainly see the problem with FIRST springing the rule on us as they did. Fortunately our team is in a position where it did not affect us at all.

[Guy Chriqui]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

What's even more impressive is when a student can make such a drawing, and present it to another student, who then makes said part.

Sounds like our team. =D
-Guy

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by squirrel

If you get bumped while using a bandsaw, your fingers can get cut off. If you get bumped while using a jigsaw, you might break the jigsaw blade. Jigsaw blades are expendable...fingers are not.

Quite true.

Originally Posted by squirrel

I would be VERY impressed with a student who could make a drawing and present it to a machinist, and have the finished part be made such that it could be attatched to the robot with no additional work. That's what engineering is all about.

I've done that several times this season, including this interesting CNC sheet metal shoulder bracket for our robot's arm which bolts right onto an IFI 72t sprocket.

http://www.team228.org/media/pictures/view/2913
http://www.team228.org/media/pictures/view/2911

But when you're in the elimination rounds and a critical part on your robot fails, you don't always have the time to create drawings and have the on-site machine shop fabricate a new one. In that case, I'd rather teach a younger student to be make up a creative, MacGyver-like solution out of a few bent up pieces of Lexan, some Gorilla glue, a hose-clamp, and an empty Mountain Dew can. (Or any other random stuff in the pits.)

I've been inspired for real engineering during the build season and on the playing field, but the inspiration I found in the pits is often for creative thinking and intuition.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

But when you're in the elimination rounds and a critical part on your robot fails, you don't always have the time to create drawings and have the on-site machine shop fabricate a new one. In that case, I'd rather teach a younger student to be make up a creative, MacGyver-like solution out of a few bent up pieces of Lexan, some Gorilla glue, a hose-clamp, and an empty Mountain Dew can. (Or any other random stuff in the pits.)

I completely agree with you! Notice that you don't need a band saw, lathe, or drill press to make that part from a few pieces of bent up lexan and a Dew can..you just need a small vise clamped to your pit table, some tin snips, maybe a hacksaw, and a cordless drill. Oh yeah...you also need to keep your cool and be careful while doing the work, so you can be safe (no matter what tools/equipment you have available)

[Bob Bonczyk]

For nine years team 107 has provided help to other teams at all the regional’s we attend with services that they needed with are machines in are pit. The lessons are students have learned by helping others has been inspiring. There have been times when I have had to wait to make a part for our robot so that a part for someone else’s robot could be fixed first. Our passion on team 107 is to help teams get though a tough weekend and have fun doing it. Along the way make friends by helping out others.

[meatmanek]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Oh yeah...you also need to keep your cool and be careful while doing the work, so you can be safe (no matter what tools/equipment you have available)

Those Dew cans are vicious.

[Justin M.]

I disagree with the noise factor, drill presses are definitely quiter than most hand drills. I can see bandsaws when cutting metal, because, well, you are cutting metal, and it makes noise.

I can see the safety part, and space part, but that should be up to the teams. I like how FIRST is quite slack when it comes to these things, allowing the teams to make the right decisions. Our freshman team does smaller robotics competitions, this year they did BEST. They don't allow ANYTHING in the pits, in fact, if the judges see you, they actually take points of (which is why we have the freshman do it, BEST is a show competition that has little or no robotic challenges).

As for the noise, the pits aren't exactly quiet, nor do they need to be quiet. They're usually blasting music anyway and screaming over the PA - come to the Philly regional and you'll know what I'm talking abobut.

[Zoheb N]

FIRST has listened to our requests and they are allowing us to bring back some tools check update 17

[John Gutmann]

Originally Posted by squirrel

If you get bumped while using a bandsaw, your fingers can get cut off. If you get bumped while using a jigsaw, you might break the jigsaw blade. Jigsaw blades are expendable...fingers are not.

You could probably find a different example for comparing the safety of the two ways of sawing that would be more favorable to your argument (the problem of finding a way to safely clamp a piece for cutting with a jigsaw comes to mind)




I would be VERY impressed with a student who could make a drawing and present it to a machinist, and have the finished part be made such that it could be attatched to the robot with no additional work. That's what engineering is all about.

But one of these days our team will have some neat machinery, and my attitude will change.

Did it last year. Thank you Project Lead The Way for making us draw all that stuff out by hand before on autodesk!

-John

[GaryVoshol]

So is it recinded or is it not? Team Update #16 is the last one out there, and the ban is still noted. Has there been any communication from FIRST changing Update #16?

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by GaryV1188

So is it recinded or is it not? Team Update #16 is the last one out there, and the ban is still noted. Has there been any communication from FIRST changing Update #16?

Perhaps there will be an Update #17 on Tuesday to clarify the situation.