Drill presses and bandsaws back in the pits

[GaryVoshol]

So is it recinded or is it not? Team Update #16 is the last one out there, and the ban is still noted. Has there been any communication from FIRST changing Update #16?

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by GaryV1188

So is it recinded or is it not? Team Update #16 is the last one out there, and the ban is still noted. Has there been any communication from FIRST changing Update #16?

Perhaps there will be an Update #17 on Tuesday to clarify the situation.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

But when you're in the elimination rounds and a critical part on your robot fails, you don't always have the time to create drawings and have the on-site machine shop fabricate a new one. In that case, I'd rather teach a younger student to be make up a creative, MacGyver-like solution out of a few bent up pieces of Lexan, some Gorilla glue, a hose-clamp, and an empty Mountain Dew can. (Or any other random stuff in the pits.)

I completely agree with you! Notice that you don't need a band saw, lathe, or drill press to make that part from a few pieces of bent up lexan and a Dew can..you just need a small vise clamped to your pit table, some tin snips, maybe a hacksaw, and a cordless drill. Oh yeah...you also need to keep your cool and be careful while doing the work, so you can be safe (no matter what tools/equipment you have available)

[Bob Bonczyk]

For nine years team 107 has provided help to other teams at all the regional’s we attend with services that they needed with are machines in are pit. The lessons are students have learned by helping others has been inspiring. There have been times when I have had to wait to make a part for our robot so that a part for someone else’s robot could be fixed first. Our passion on team 107 is to help teams get though a tough weekend and have fun doing it. Along the way make friends by helping out others.

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by GaryV1188

So is it recinded or is it not? Team Update #16 is the last one out there, and the ban is still noted. Has there been any communication from FIRST changing Update #16?

I've been wondering the same thing myself. I heard Wednesday evening from a reliable source that the ban had been rescinded earlier that day, and the regional staff evidently were informed, as they weren't enforcing the rule, so I've been waiting for an official communication from FIRST ever since. I wouldn't like to think that the reason for FIRST's silence is that they are embarassed over the flip-flop decision.

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

I've been wondering the same thing myself. I heard Wednesday evening from a reliable source that the ban had been rescinded earlier that day, and the regional staff evidently were informed, as they weren't enforcing the rule, so I've been waiting for an official communication from FIRST ever since. I wouldn't like to think that the reason for FIRST's silence is that they are embarassed over the flip-flop decision.

I can tell you that on Thursday, the FIRST officials at the LA Regional believed that the ban was in effect and informed teams that were not aware of Update #16 that bandsaws, drill presses and grinders were not allowed in the pits. Hence, the discussion that led to the alternative solution of a "quick cut/drill station". We got word Friday morning that the ban had been lifted by FIRST.

[Warren Boudreau]

Our machinist was crushed that he would not be able to help out teams by milling or lathing parts for them during the regional.

He would be more than happy to man our mill and lathe in any area that FIRST would allow.

Maybe FIRST can come up with a reasonable compromise before the Championship.

I am very worried about overloading the machine shops in the area if teams are restricted in what they can do themselves. But that is for another thread.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Warren Boudreau

Our machinist was crushed that he would not be able to help out teams by milling or lathing parts for them during the regional.

Strangely, I think this is the reason that there has been so much uproar about this rule....some experienced teams have gone to quite a bit of effort to get this equipment, and have become used to having it around. It really is a great loss to have it taken away. At young regionals like AZ, no one expects it to be there, so we do without, and all goes well.

I was trying to explain this to my son last night, he couldn't see what the big deal was about update 16.

[BrianR]

I know that at Milwaukee there was no word about Update #16 being rescinded, and no one used any of the banned machines. FIRST really needs to clarify this soon so that there is a fair and consistent implementation at this week's regionals.

[IndySam]

Just got an update that we may bring bandsaws and drill presses into the pits at Purdue.


Funny we weren’t allowed to use them last year at Purdue.

Looks like I’ll have to buy a new blade for our mini-bandsaw.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by sparksandtabs

Did it last year. Thank you Project Lead The Way for making us draw all that stuff out by hand before on autodesk!

-John

I can honestly say the days that we have to hand draw our parts it turns IED from a fun class to a chore...But, I can also say that if it wasn't for those drawings of the cube, Lego, et cetera, than I would not be as fast on ADI as I am because when I draw the pieces you realize the different ways to make it happen.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Strangely, I think this is the reason that there has been so much uproar about this rule....some experienced teams have gone to quite a bit of effort to get this equipment, and have become used to having it around. It really is a great loss to have it taken away. At young regionals like AZ, no one expects it to be there, so we do without, and all goes well.

I was trying to explain this to my son last night, he couldn't see what the big deal was about update 16.

Now that you mention that, I think that is exactly what everything comes down to. When you have regionals like UTC, which have been around for more than a decade, teams get used to fact that Team X will usually bring this tool, and Team Y will usually bring that tool, and if needed you can always ask to borrow such tool. People generally don't like giving up resources that they become accustomed to.

(It's like if you always build your robot with copious amounts of CNC parts, and then you're told you can only use a manual mill. Or if you always use a manual mill and lathe, and are told you can only use hand tools. Or if you always use a calculator to solve problems, and then are told to only use long division with a pencil and paper to find out the answer to 21554/3967 to eight decimal spots.)

[RoboMom]

Out to the Chesapeake Teams:

Chesapeake Regional Team Development Committee Representatives Response to Update#16:

Update 16 has provoked considerable discussion and debate over machining activities allowed in the pits at FRC competition events. Teams are advised that Update 16 stands as the official word from FIRST and that plans are in place to address the issues presented and will be issued in Update 17 (most likely distributed on Tuesday, March 13).

As teams pack for the upcoming week, please be advised that safety is of the utmost concern at all events and that teams need to work smart in the pits. Teams need to be aware of the dynamic nature of communication that occurs as part of the FIRST program and that FIRST is aware of the issues at hand. The Chesapeake Regional event staff and volunteers cannot change or create its own rules even if the aim is to satisfy the needs of the teams as the rules are set down by the FIRST organization.

The event staff requests that all teams continue to monitor the FIRST website over the next few days and be prepared to help each other as you have in the past at the event. Teams are asked to be flexible, patient, and considerate during the entire event as these issues are addressed. There is nothing wrong with teams being prepared, if changes directed by FIRST occur prior to or at the event.

[David Brinza]

FIRST has responded to a question in the official Q&A forum regarding approval of mobile machine shops:

Approving a mobile machine shop

There still may be further information regarding bandsaws and drill presses in Update #17 (tomorrow or later?).

[meatmanek]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Oh yeah...you also need to keep your cool and be careful while doing the work, so you can be safe (no matter what tools/equipment you have available)

Those Dew cans are vicious.