Prediction: Veterans take off the gloves in Week 3

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

No, even while playing mean defense, the top scorers can still put up a few. This game still has some offensive tricks to be revealed when all is said and done.

Not reallly... if you don't have ramps, you're screwed.

All an opposing alliance has to do to shut down 2 great scorers is place one ringer on the middle spider leg on each side of the rack, and all you can score is a row of 3, max. If you start to go for the top or bottom, they do the same thing.

The rest of the 2 minutes the other two robots will bash the heck out of anyone who looks like they can score, and then will get on their ramps at the end.

If you don't have equal or better ramps, you're toast, no matter how many tubes you can score.

[Josh Murphy]

Originally Posted by Cory

Not reallly... if you don't have ramps, you're screwed.

All an opposing alliance has to do to shut down 2 great scorers is place one ringer on the middle spider leg on each side of the rack, and all you can score is a row of 3, max. If you start to go for the top or bottom, they do the same thing.

The rest of the 2 minutes the other two robots will bash the heck out of anyone who looks like they can score, and then will get on their ramps at the end.

If you don't have equal or better ramps, you're toast, no matter how many tubes you can score.

I completely agree with you and thats the strategy I have been talking about now for two weeks and you are right you are toast if this happens to you.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by oberg

Or 558. Hrmm maybe we should all listen to Tom Bot more often, I guess the practice bot paid off.

Our practice bot helped too. We had one set of drivers using the 2006 robot to play some mean defense while the other set practiced with a 2007 robot clone on the rack. That definitely helped when it came to being out on the competition field.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Cory

Not reallly... if you don't have ramps, you're screwed.

All an opposing alliance has to do to shut down 2 great scorers is place one ringer on the middle spider leg on each side of the rack, and all you can score is a row of 3, max. If you start to go for the top or bottom, they do the same thing.

The rest of the 2 minutes the other two robots will bash the heck out of anyone who looks like they can score, and then will get on their ramps at the end.

If you don't have equal or better ramps, you're toast, no matter how many tubes you can score.

In theory that sounds nice, but it doesn't always work out. 293, 75, and 203 won Chesapeake with a total of 0 bonus points during the entire elimination matches. I have a feeling that the winning alliance at championship will have 3 scoring machines (at least 2 of which can hit all 3 levels at ease, and 1+ that can remove spoilers) and a at least one bot capable of consistently getting 2 bots above 12".

[oberg]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

In theory that sounds nice, but it doesn't always work out. 293, 75, and 203 won Chesapeake with a total of 0 bonus points during the entire elimination matches. I have a feeling that the winning alliance at championship will have 3 scoring machines (at least 2 of which can hit all 3 levels at ease, and 1+ that can remove spoilers) and a at least one bot capable of consistently getting 2 bots above 12".

I agree, 3 good scoring robots can easily get 8 tubes around with good defense being played on them. Ramps are nice to have but not necessary.

[Joel J]

Absolutely not. Ramps are very much required. 2 robots at 12" along with offensive fire power.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

In theory that sounds nice, but it doesn't always work out. 293, 75, and 203 won Chesapeake with a total of 0 bonus points during the entire elimination matches. I have a feeling that the winning alliance at championship will have 3 scoring machines (at least 2 of which can hit all 3 levels at ease, and 1+ that can remove spoilers) and a at least one bot capable of consistently getting 2 bots above 12".

I think you're misreading what I said.

If you're on an alliance that has two robots that can score well, but has no ramps, or ramps that don't work very well, you will almost always lose to an alliance that has one solid scoring robot, good defenders, and a good ramp bot.

It doesn't matter how good the tube scoring bots are. Two robots bashing the heck out of both will be able to hold an alliance to less than 60 tube points. At which point it comes down to the ramps, in which case the first alliance loses.

[oberg]

Watch the UTC Finals, team 25 and team 176 played straight D on team 195 and team 1124 and we managed to put up 7 tubes.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by oberg

Watch the UTC Finals, team 25 and team 176 played straight D on team 195 and team 1124 and we managed to put up 7 tubes.

I just watched those matches, and I wouldn't even call that defense compared to what was seen at SVR this weekend. 25 and 176 tried to play defense, but didnt do a good job of it at all.

I don't know if any of the SVR elims are archived yet, but if they are, go check them out and you'll see what Im talking about. The defense on everyone who could score was absolutely brutal.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

The finals of Midwest were full of pure tube scoring robots. Team 1000 and team 111 both had ramps but neither used them. 1000 tried to play defense on 111 but it wasn't effective enough. While 447 and 648 scored a lot of tubes, while being harrassed. However, in the end, the scoring of 111 could not be matched by two robots being harrassed out the ying-yang.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Cory

Not reallly... if you don't have ramps, you're screwed.

The winners of the UTC and Chesapeake regional won all of their matches without the bonus points. I'm not saying this negates what happened at SVR, but I think we will see something different in Atlanta.

[sdcantrell56]

Honestly if you want to see some strong defense watch the eliminations of the Bayou regional. We had one of, if not the strongest drivetrain and our new driver really let loose on the defense. Basically we tied our gripper up and went all out. In the semifinals no one scored against us.

[JoelGoering]

Originally Posted by Cory

Not reallly... if you don't have ramps, you're screwed.

All an opposing alliance has to do to shut down 2 great scorers is place one ringer on the middle spider leg on each side of the rack, and all you can score is a row of 3, max. If you start to go for the top or bottom, they do the same thing.

The rest of the 2 minutes the other two robots will bash the heck out of anyone who looks like they can score, and then will get on their ramps at the end.

If you don't have equal or better ramps, you're toast, no matter how many tubes you can score.

Well, the way you explain it is that alliance A would put 2 ringers on opposite sides of the rack. Alliance B then can't have a long row. That, is correct, but in the time that it takes Alliance A to put a tube on one side, couldn't Alliance B just place a ringer on the opposite side and thus ruin A's strategy and begin their own row. Not to mention taht for ever tube A puts on, B would have put 2 on because they have 2 good scorers.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

The winners of the UTC and Chesapeake regional won all of their matches without the bonus points. I'm not saying this negates what happened at SVR, but I think we will see something different in Atlanta.

I agree. In Atlanta things will be different. You will need two strong scorers, one of whom has good ramps/lifts, and a third partner that can cap some/play defense.

Until then, at events where the top tube scorers don't have ramps, and there aren't any real good ones available in the second round, I'd expect to see what I've described happening.

[Joel J]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

The winners of the UTC and Chesapeake regional won all of their matches without the bonus points. I'm not saying this negates what happened at SVR, but I think we will see something different in Atlanta.

I watched VCU, NJ, BAE, St. Louis finals, Great Lakes, Finger Lakes, UTC, NYC Finals, Midwest final finals, and maybe others?

The main point I got was that defense has a major impact. Ramps are important. Scoring is important. 2 robots on 1 scorer mean 0-1 tubes scored by that scorer. 4 well-placed tubes means no long rows. 1 well placed spoiler means .

The only times I've seen ramps not make the difference were at regionals with an insufficient number of good ramps. I've never not seen defense.

I agree that the attempts at playing defense by 25 and 176 were sub par. Finger Lakes, the other regional I saw live, was pretty strongly biased towards defense. I was actually surprised that they (25, 176) didn't try to score tubes, then ramp.

I say that the only saving grace for the offense scoring strategy will be a match with mostly offensive teams. But then, you'll still not really make very large rows, because the other alliance may be intelligent, and place their ringers well.

Prepare for defense. I think it will only get worse. I also say don't be foolish enough to think you can get by without 2@12, or three moving robots that do something throughout the round (whether scoring, defense, or otherwise).

The ideal alliance going into the finals may be three scoring robots, one of which is capable of 2@12. Also, at least one would have to have a good drivetrain that is capable of going on a mean defensive should it be necessary. Ideally, two of the three robots would have good drivetrains.