YMTC: Bluabot Bulldozes Out Of Home Zone

[Natchez]

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You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call. Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

It's the first seeding match on Saturday of the Magnolia Regional. Friday was dominated by ramp 'bots ... 60 was seemingly impossible to catch and 30 wasn't easily conquered. Blualliance, with no ramp 'bots, is battling Redalliance with debatably the best two ramp 'bots at the Magnolia. The Redateam begins the match by playing hard defense while Bluateam struggles to score 4 ringers in a row. Bluabot heads for the Opponents Home Zone early in the match and disrupts the wall ringers while waving "hi" to the Redalliance flight teams. With 45 seconds remaining, Redabot returns to their Home Zone. Bluabot battles Redabot but seems to be more interested in staying between the wall and Redabot than pushing Redabot around. The 20-second warning sounds and Bluabot is positioned between Redabot and the Opponents Alliance Station Wall; Bluabot attempts to drive directly out of the Opponents Home Zone and intentionally contacts Redabot while attempting to "bulldoze" their way out of the Opponents Home Zone. With 15 seconds remaining, Redabot, without ever moving "right or left" to allow Bluabot free passage from their Home Zone, unfurls their ramps and Bluabot, still in the Opponents Home Zone, continues to push Redabot nearer the Home Zone line. With Bluabot pushing, a Redabot's alliance member easily climbs on top of Redabot with 5 seconds remaining. As time expires, Bluateam scores one more ringer for 5 in a row and a total of 32 points. The buzzer sounds before Redabot's other alliance member could climb on top resulting in 30 bonus points for Redalliance with no ringers scored. Bluabot graciously () comes to rest without successfully bulldozing their way out of the Opponents Home Zone.

Based on the 2007 Rules, YOU MAKE THE CALL!

[JBotAlan]

Actually, I voted then looked directly at the rules...

<G24> Clearing HOME ZONE – the first audio signal, sounded five seconds before the start of the
END GAME, serves as a warning for ROBOTS to exit from the opposing HOME ZONE.
ROBOTS attempting to exit from the HOME ZONE after the audio signal may not be blocked
or impeded in this attempt.

<G24> specifies no penalty...I hate these rules that specify no consequence.

So, per the 2007 rules, there would be *no* penalty for this.

JBot

[Richard Wallace]

Per the last sentence of <G25>:

Originally Posted by 2007 Manual

<G25> END GAME play – ROBOTS may not occupy the opponents HOME ZONE during the END GAME. Any ROBOT in an opponent’s HOME ZONE at the start of the END GAME will be assessed a 10-point penalty. A second 10-point penalty will be assessed if the ROBOT is still in the HOME ZONE 5 seconds after the start of the END GAME. Another 10-point penalty will be assessed if the ROBOT remains in the HOME ZONE 10 seconds after the start of the END GAME. However, a ROBOT that has been blocked or otherwise prevented from exiting the HOME ZONE (as described in Rule <G24>) will not be assessed any penalty.

there is no penalty on Bluabot for occupying the Red home zone, because their attempt to leave was blocked by Redabot.

Bluateam wins.

[ALIBI]

"The 20-second warning sounds and Bluabot is positioned between Redabot and the Opponents Alliance Station Wall; Bluabot drives directly out of the Opponents Home Zone and intentionally contacts Redabot while attempting to "bulldoze" their way out of the Opponents Home Zone. With 15 seconds remaining, Redabot, without ever moving "right or left" to allow Bluabot free passage from their Home Zone, unfurls their ramps and Bluabot, still in the Opponents Home Zone, continues to push Redabot nearer the Home Zone line."

I am confused. Above: "Bluabot drives directly out of the Opponents Home Zone....." How did bluabot get back into the Opponents Home Zone? Did you mean: Bluabot tries to drive directly out of the ....? with Redabot blocking passage. I agree with the previous two answers if that is the case. G24 and G25 are fairly clear. If Blueabot is actually pined between Redabot, and the wall, there could also be a pining penatly against Redabot if held for more than ten seconds (G39).

[Nuttyman54]

I think the issue here is that the Bluabot kept attempting to drive straight out, rather than turning and leaving. Thus, it's a ref's (or ours in this case) call to determine whether or not they are, in fact, being blocked or prevented from leaving, or whether they were just too stubborn to try another way.

From the way that it is worded, it seems like the Redabot intentionally did not move left or right so as to keep Bluabot in the home zone. Thus, I agree with the previous postings, basing my decision on the wording accurately reflecting the intentions of the teams.

[Scott team 48]

I see no penalties here only if the redabot is completely preventing the bluabot from escaping, however, if there is plenty of room for bluabot to drive around them, I view this as a penalty. As far as pinning is concerned, its only pinning if they are making contact with bluabot, while bluabot is being pushed into another object, i.e. the wall. My understanding is that in this scenario there is a pocket of space between redabot and the wall, bluabot has room to move around behind them, but due to the size of redabot, they can't physically get out of the home zone.

No penalty in my opinion assuming the above paragraph is met, but seeing the match would make that call more clear if it were to ever happen.

[GaryVoshol]

I'd like to add my voice to the late minority opinion surfacing here. If bluebot has the opportunity to turn and get out and they don't take it, the penalty is on them. If redabot moves to prevent bluebot from leaving, then there is no penalty on bluebot.

[KTorak]

No penalty for Bluabot because they were blocked and no penalty for Redabot because I don't see a rule giving them a penalty for blocking.

[Jack Jones]

Well, if I'm allowed to make the call, then it depends.
If I'm Red, then Blue gets a penalty.
If I'm Blue, then I'll settle for no penalty at all.
If I’m the ref, then I’d call it the way I saw it, and expect one side not to like it. Should the head over-rule, then both the other side and I would not be too happy.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

If I’m the ref, then I’d call it the way I saw it, and expect one side not to like it.

This is what refs are expected to do. That's why they wear the stripes. Competitors should expect no less.

[EricH]

LSR Quarter Finals: Refs call penalty on robot trying to leave. 30 points of penalties. (Went in to stop a ramp deploying well before the buzzer. Successful, but got trapped in the process.)

[theycallhimtom]

<G24> (which has already been quoted)
"ROBOTS attempting to exit from the HOME ZONE after the audio signal may not be blocked or impeded in this attempt."

All it says is "attempting to exit". It does not say that the robot should exit by the smartest route, or that the robot should avoid other robots in its attempt to exit. Bluabot is attempting to exit so no penalty. Whether the attempt is a bad attempt or not has no relevance. All that matters is that they are attempting to exit the home zone.


Now while there should not be a penalty. I'm not sure whether or not a referee should give bluabot a yellow card. That rule again is:

<T06>
The Head Referee may assign a YELLOW CARD as a warning of egregious ROBOT or team member behavior.

I personally do not think that yellow cards should be given out to teams following the rules, even if they are using a little loop hole in the rules. But I think that it could go either way. It seems obvious that bluabot's intent was to be in the other team's home zone with less than 15 seconds left in order to block the ramp. Therefore I think a yellow card could be used, although personally I would not use it.

[BandChick]

I don't think this should result in a penalty, and I think it's a perfectly acceptable strategy played by the blue alliance. In fact, we had a team at Philadelphia this weekend that left themselves in the home zone, incurred a thirty point penalty (they had clear room to exit), and still won the match. Simply, it IS possible to risk that 30-point penalty if you know it will prevent Red alliance from scoring 30-60 bonus points.

AND We didn't give out a yellow card, in case anyone was wondering.