YMTC: Ramp Trouble

[Conor Ryan]

You Make The Call!

After a great teleoperated period both alliances head back to their ramps with the score 8-8, the Blue Alliance gets 2 robots on a ramp for 60 points, the Red Alliance gets 2 robots on a ramp to equalize the score! And there is the buzzer! Then out of nowhere, Team Blueabot's Ramp's fail, both robots fall to the ground after the buzzer. Just as this is happening Team Redabot rolls back down their alliance partners ramp as power is cut, but the 3rd alliance partner hangs on for 30 bonus points.

You Make The Call!

[Ricky Q.]

Red wins 38-8.

All the ones that fell don't count, pretty simple.

[EricH]

Red, 38-8.
I forget which update/Q&A, but FIRST did say that the final score happens when the refs measure the robots. One of the "official" YMTCs had a link--I think the name of the thread was "Blueabot is Very Uplifting" or something like that.

[Cody Carey]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be making a call on here.

[ALIBI]

Actions after power is cut: Posted by FRC1985 at 01/18/2007 10:11:59 am
We understand that the field is scored when it comes to rest and a question arised from that. We were wondering: Would be allowable to have a mechanical action start right before thepower is cut to continue lifting another robot after there is no power? This could be done either though a counterweight system, air bag system, or an airpowered jack. Also, if this is allowable, how long after power is cut can we continue to have these pieces
move? Thanks Team 1985 Re: Actions after power is cut. Posted by GDC at 01/19/2007 09:57:36 am All actions must be initiated during the match period. The referees assess the bonus points as quickly as reasonable following the end of the match. There will be a short time period while
they access the field before assessing bonus points, but once in position they will not wait for all motion to complete. End Game bonus Posted by FRC1737 at 02/13/2007 04:07:06 pm Lets say our robot is able to jack up another robot higher than 12 inches at the end of the play in the Home Zone. However when power is cut at the end of match the pneumatics might
drain some which allows the robot to fall back down. If the robot is above 12 inches when play stops will the officials award the bonus points even if
the raised robot settles down below the 12 inch mark? Re: End Game bonus
Posted by GDC at 02/14/2007 05:23:30 pm The prior answer from January 19 still applies.


Since the ramps fell at the same time that the robot rolled off the ramp when power was cut. It seems as though the refs did not have sufficient time to measure either of Blueabots ramped bots before the ramp failed or the Redabots second bot that rolled off. I have seen bots roll off as power was cut and have never seen the refs able to measure in time. Even if you were to argue that Blueabots were up, how would the refs measure the height? FYI, I am not positive, but as I worked either last friday or saturday I watched Waterloo in the backgound. Am I imagining this or did I see the refs place a leg support that had failed after the buzzer and then measure the height of a ramped bot? Can anyone confirm this? I remember thinking that I would probably not have done that. If one argued that the leg failure was mechanical and the ramp was up when the buzzer sounded, one could also argue that the brakes failed and that allowed the robot to roll off.


Red Team 38, Blue Team 8

[ZZII 527]

This situation happened once at the Boston Regional...a ramp leg collapsed after the buzzer but before measurement. I couldn't tell for sure if it was disturbed by anyone or if it fell on its own. However, I believe the leg was put back into place by the ref, and then a measurement was taken. This seems odd to me. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Daniel Brim]

Originally Posted by ZZII 527

This situation happened once at the Boston Regional...a ramp leg collapsed after the buzzer but before measurement. I couldn't tell for sure if it was disturbed by anyone or if it fell on its own. However, I believe the leg was put back into place by the ref, and then a measurement was taken. This seems odd to me. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I was watching this, and it seemed that the ref disturbed the ramp, causing the collapse. That was my take, anyhow.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by ZZII 527

This situation happened once at the Boston Regional...a ramp leg collapsed after the buzzer but before measurement. I couldn't tell for sure if it was disturbed by anyone or if it fell on its own. However, I believe the leg was put back into place by the ref, and then a measurement was taken. This seems odd to me. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Yes, the rule that someone stated to me was that it has to hold for 10 seconds, the one in Boston held for at least that long (the refs were talking when it fell - I dont think they were near it from what I remember), so they decided to count it.

So if the ramps fell prior to 10 seconds, they wouldnt count, otherwise its a tie.

[ChrisMcK2186]

Plain and simply, the team whose ramps failed looses 38-8. They couldn't hold their own. If it was height when power was cut, hovercraft style bots might have been used to gain atleast four.

I figure the rule to be the bots being supported,unpowered, for as long as needed to get the measurement. final is 38-8.

Chris

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Yes, the rule that someone stated to me was that it has to hold for 10 seconds, the one in Boston held for at least that long (the refs were talking when it fell - I dont think they were near it from what I remember), so they decided to count it.

So if the ramps fell prior to 10 seconds, they wouldnt count, otherwise its a tie.

I do not recall seeing a specific rule specifiying 10 seconds...

I believe Daniel got this right...the refs disturbed the ramp and the robot tipped over...they tipped it back up and measured it from there. I believe it was RAGE.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by ZZII 527

This situation happened once at the Boston Regional...a ramp leg collapsed after the buzzer but before measurement. I couldn't tell for sure if it was disturbed by anyone or if it fell on its own. However, I believe the leg was put back into place by the ref, and then a measurement was taken. This seems odd to me. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

It was our robot that fell. I was told it was because the refs accidentally hit the leg while measuring the height. Since they disrupted it, the put it back up.

Before it fell over.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...38809637674178


After the refs put it back up.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...39406638128338

[ZZII 527]

Originally Posted by Ogre

It was our robot that fell. I was told it was because the refs accidentally hit the leg while measuring the height. Since they disrupted it, the put it back up.

Before it fell over.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...38809637674178


After the refs put it back up.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...39406638128338

That was my hunch too. It appeared the ref knocked it a little on her way out to measure. In which case, I agree with the call.

But as far as the YMTC scenario presented above, I agree with Red, 38-8 for reasons mentioned by others.

[Taylor]

It all depends on when the refs measured the heights. Given the information, I would assume the falling happened before the refs could come out to the field, which would give a 38-8 score.
It's conceivable that if the refs were quick enough, it would have been a 68-68 tie.
The 10-second rule, while valuable in the kitchen, has no official place in the world of FRC. If it was enforced at one or more regionals, I would view it as an anomaly, like the no-defense-without-a-tube-at-GLR "rule" and treat it as such.

[ALIBI]

Originally Posted by Ogre

It was our robot that fell. I was told it was because the refs accidentally hit the leg while measuring the height. Since they disrupted it, the put it back up.

Before it fell over.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...38809637674178


After the refs put it back up.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewP...39406638128338

I did not see how the leg fell. All I remember seeing was three or four refs picking up the ramp and robot and another ref putting the leg support back where it belonged. The refs did the right thing. Just curious, if your leg for some reason, not wishing it on you, did fall before the refs got out there, how would you rule?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

Just curious, if your leg for some reason, not wishing it on you, did fall before the refs got out there, how would you rule?

If it fell before the refs even got onto the field, it wouldn't count. If the refs knocked it over, and set it up, and it counts, it counts.