Ruling on R12 at SBPLI Regional

[Gusman1188]

At the SBPLI regional one of our ramps deployed early by accident. The total length of the robot with the forks down was ~74 inches, outside of the 72 inch box. I know on the FIRST Forum they clarified this with the following:

The intent of Rule <R12> is that the robot must be able to fit within a 72" x 72" virtual box at all times when outside of the Home Zone. The orientation of the robot within the box is inconsequential.

We did all the calculations taking into consideration the width of our robot and forks and it all fits inside the box, consuming 78" of the 101.823". When we went to the refs with this info, their argument was that since we do not have a triangle on the back of the robot which would indicate the starting orientation being diagnol, it is a violation. I disagree in this ruling and was wondering if any other teams had info on rulings at other regionals or any other information. Thanks.

[Rick]

You are completely right! The orientation inside the box does not matter. No "triangle side" needed. All the New England regionals were called correctly, meaning they actually did calculations and made sure a machine fit or did not fit inside the box before giving out the penalty. I would print out the Q and A and bring it to the head refs attention.

[Spider-Man]

I'm not sure I completely follow the last part of your explanation, but I will explain my interpretation of the rule:

All horizontal lines drawn from one point on the robot to another point on the robot must be less than or equal to 72 inches. The way it's worded is somewhat obtuse with the box stuff, but the idea is that the length or width is attributed to the longest part of the robot and it should fit within the box.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Spider-Man

I'm not sure I completely follow the last part of your explanation, but I will explain my interpretation of the rule:

All horizontal lines drawn from one point on the robot to another point on the robot must be less than or equal to 72 inches. The way it's worded is somewhat obtuse with the box stuff, but the idea is that the length or width is attributed to the longest part of the robot and it should fit within the box.

This seems to be how the referees on Long Island are interpreting the rule, but it is not correct as per clarification within the Q&A system. The proper interpretation is that the robot's orientation within a 72" square is inconsequential, such that placing the robot at a diagonal to any side of that square such that it fits within the bounds is acceptable.

An infinitely thin arm attached to an infinitely thin robot could be as long as ~104" and satisfy <R12>.

[Rick]

This is what the situation is.

[Liz Smith]

Originally Posted by Spider-Man

I'm not sure I completely follow the last part of your explanation, but I will explain my interpretation of the rule:

All horizontal lines drawn from one point on the robot to another point on the robot must be less than or equal to 72 inches. The way it's worded is somewhat obtuse with the box stuff, but the idea is that the length or width is attributed to the longest part of the robot and it should fit within the box.

Well, I believe that interpretation is not the correct one.

The starting orientation of the robot does not matter. Chris' interpretation of the rule is correct. If his calculations are all correct, his robot should not have been in violation. But, then again.. the refs decisions are final. Let's keep this friendly.

[Spider-Man]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

This seems to be how the referees on Long Island are interpreting the rule, but it is not correct as per clarification within the Q&A system. The proper interpretation is that the robot's orientation within a 72" square is inconsequential, such that placing the robot at a diagonal to any side of that square such that it fits within the bounds is acceptable.

An infinitely thin arm could attached to an infinitely thin robot could be as long as ~104" and satisfy <R12>.

I now realize the error in my ways.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1718

Tomorrow, somebody should bring this Q&A response to the head referee.

[EmilioM]

You are correct. Our team asked FIRST as we were designing the robot at the very beginning of the build season and the clarification stated that if the robot fits inside the 72" x 72" box by ANY orientation, it is considered within the parameters. You were right, the penalty is unjust.