2007 Lone Star Regional

[Henry_Mareck]

The red card was not given to team 16, it was given to us, team 418.

[newton418]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I would be thrilled if the referees took the time to tell the teams receiving the penalties how, why and when the penalty was assessed.

Thrilled.

As the driver for 418, I would like to add that the head referee did, in my opinion, an amazing job. There were several times I did not understand, or disagreed with the penalties, and every time I talked to him after a match he patiently explained the ruling to me. Though I agree that it would be great if the referees went up to the drive team and explained penalties, considering how much they are already expected to do, I don't know if that would be feasible.

As for the red card, I believe we (team 418) received the red card. I decided to not approach the referees on the red card decision due to the chaos and heightened emotions; however, this is my understanding of what happened:

I (the 418 robot) drove across the field in 2nd gear (around 9 ft/sec) and 1745 approached us at the same time. Having just received a 10 point ramming penalty, I slowed down, then decided to push through them to get to 118 and 476. While attempting to push them, they got on top of our robot and were close to falling. I then tried to back off, but realized we had become tangled. It is my belief, based on no evidence, that this was interpreted by the referees as us attempting to push 1745 over, which is reasonable grounds for a red card. I would just like to say, as the driver of the 418 robot, it was never my intention to flip their robot, in fact, I was just as interested in backing off as the were. Well, eventually 1745 managed to back off of us, pulling our battery cables in the process. Without our main battery plugged in, we were dead for the rest of the match.

Regardless, it has been an amazing day. Congratulations to team 118, 476 and 1745 for their hard fought win today, and thanks to 1421 and 16 for being amazing alliance partners

[EricH]

Originally Posted by newton418

...As for the red card, I believe we (team 418) received the red card. I decided to not approach the referees on the red card decision due to the chaos and heightened emotions; however, this is my understanding of what happened:

I (the 418 robot) drove across the field in 2nd gear (around 9 ft/sec) and 1745 approached us at the same time. Having just received a 10 point ramming penalty, I slowed down, then decided to push through them to get to 118 and 476. While attempting to push them, they got on top of our robot and were close to falling. I then tried to back off, but realized we had become tangled. It is my belief, based on no evidence, that this was interpreted by the referees as us attempting to push 1745 over, which is reasonable grounds for a red card. I would just like to say, as the driver of the 418 robot, it was never my intention to flip their robot, in fact, I was just as interested in backing off as the were. Well, eventually 1745 managed to back off of us, pulling our battery cables in the process. Without our main battery plugged in, we were dead for the rest of the match...

Webcast: I believe it would have been high speed, long distance ramming.

16 drew 30 points for home zone violation (I believe). blue in red zone...15 seconds...-30 points.

[Hegemoni]

I'd just like to say that everyone did great. There is some tough competition coming though Texas, and I'm proud to say I was part of the Lone Star Regional.

Special thanks to 846 and 1750 for being great teammates.

And congrats to 118, 476 and 1745! It was really fun watching you.

[TubaMorg]

Originally Posted by newton418

As the driver for 418, I would like to add that the head referee did, in my opinion, an amazing job. There were several times I did not understand, or disagreed with the penalties, and every time I talked to him after a match he patiently explained the ruling to me. Though I agree that it would be great if the referees went up to the drive team and explained penalties, considering how much they are already expected to do, I don't know if that would be feasible.

As for the red card, I believe we (team 418) received the red card. I decided to not approach the referees on the red card decision due to the chaos and heightened emotions; however, this is my understanding of what happened:

I (the 418 robot) drove across the field in 2nd gear (around 9 ft/sec) and 1745 approached us at the same time. Having just received a 10 point ramming penalty, I slowed down, then decided to push through them to get to 118 and 476. While attempting to push them, they got on top of our robot and were close to falling. I then tried to back off, but realized we had become tangled. It is my belief, based on no evidence, that this was interpreted by the referees as us attempting to push 1745 over, which is reasonable grounds for a red card. I would just like to say, as the driver of the 418 robot, it was never my intention to flip their robot, in fact, I was just as interested in backing off as the were. Well, eventually 1745 managed to back off of us, pulling our battery cables in the process. Without our main battery plugged in, we were dead for the rest of the match.

Regardless, it has been an amazing day. Congratulations to team 118, 476 and 1745 for their hard fought win today, and thanks to 1421 and 16 for being amazing alliance partners

As an impartial observer of the finals, there was a lot of pretty aggressive defense going on. I have to say, though, that Purple Haze was being clearly VERY aggresive on defense. The match in question was clearly a high speed collision from across 2/3s of the field. Whether an attempt was made to slow down beforehand, it was not discernable from the stands. I thought 418 had been disabled due to the DQ call and was frankly amazed 1745 survived the crash. This sort of driving was evident in prior matches and I guess the referee finally decided enough was enough.

[Kymber]

Originally Posted by mateus

another 6 min time out... they are doing the chicken dance! lol

Ok I just had to point this out for those who missed it, we actually had Paul Gudonis aka President of FIRST out there doing the chicken dance with our regional director and some of the judges. What a great time, and no I did not do the chicken dance, I have a thing about chickens, can't stand them so I avoid anything that has the word chicken in it.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Kymber

Ok I just had to point this out for those who missed it, we actually had Paul Gudonis aka President of FIRST out there doing the chicken dance with our regional director and some of the judges.

They seemed to have a great time with the team mascots they were dancing with. That was one of the many, many special moments of LSR this year.

Edit:
There are 2 other moments that stand out to me:
1. watching the Brazilian team's robot. It was a neat, small robot that consistently hung ringers and worked quietly and efficiently. It was wonderful to watch.
2. watching Team 118 work hard at repairing their robot next to the field in preparation for the upcoming match(es). The students and mentors working together in difficult circumstances was something to learn from and to respect.

I have others but they are kind of jumbled in a whirl of action, color, sound, laughter, emotion.

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by mateus

Final match 3

1772, 364 and 57 X 118, 476 and 1745

Score

30 X 32


coment:

only a tube to the blue... both teams lifted at 12"... 1772 stopped to work again...

now a brazilian comenting this.... what a pity... if the robot of 1772 didn't break they could get more 30 pts and win in both games

Yeah, one of the teams from the 118, 476 and 1745 alliance figured out that if they push the Brazilian team by the side that it would knock off their treads, and in the final match they bent 1/4" aluminum on them that connected to their arm. Very rough defense was played by us as well. Both alliances were struggling in the finals to keep running. We had the battery cable yanked out in one of the matches. I want to congratulate teams 118, 476 and 1754 on their great work and we hope to see them at nationals.

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by RyanN

Yeah, one of the teams from the 118, 476 and 1745 alliance figured out that if they push the Brazilian team by the side that it would knock off their treads, and in the final match they bent 1/4" aluminum on them that connected to their arm. Very rough defense was played by us as well. Both alliances were struggling in the finals to keep running. We had the battery cable yanked out in one of the matches. I want to congratulate teams 118, 476 and 1754 on their great work and we hope to see them at nationals.

Technically, (edit: any) strategy used by 118, 476 and 1745 to (edit: intentionally) damage the Brazilian robot is not legal:

<G35> Intentional ROBOT - ROBOT interaction - Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping over, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not in the spirit of the FIRST Robotics Competition and are not allowed.

If the contact was not high-speed ramming and was made strictly within the bumber zone, a penalty would probably not be called. Whether it is penalized or not, adopting a strategy that damages an opposing robot (due to a known vulnerability) is not GP...

Edit: <G35> is the ""FIRST is not BattleBots" rule. I don't believe any team involved thinks of FIRST as BattleBots and probably has to remind the public frequently what we really do

[Zoheb N]

Originally Posted by RyanN

Yeah, one of the teams from the 118, 476 and 1745 alliance figured out that if they push the Brazilian team by the side that it would knock off their treads, and in the final match they bent 1/4" aluminum on them that connected to their arm. Very rough defense was played by us as well. Both alliances were struggling in the finals to keep running. We had the battery cable yanked out in one of the matches. I want to congratulate teams 118, 476 and 1754 on their great work and we hope to see them at nationals.

I am on 118 and I am pretty sure that no one on our alliance purposely knocked off the Brazilian teams tread. It was from playing defense and trying to prevent them from scoring. There was no intent to take the Brazilian team "out of the fight" and make their robot not function as well.

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by Zoheb N

I am on 118 and I am pretty sure that no one on our alliance purposely knocked off the Brazilian teams tread. It was from playing defense and trying to prevent them from scoring. There was no intent to take the Brazilian team "out of the fight" and make their robot not function as well.

I am sure that veteran teams such as your own don't develop strategies based on damaging opposing robots. We all scout teams to understand how we can gain advantage based on relative capabilities of the robots and drivers.

My earlier post was intended to remind teams that this is not "Battle-bots" and a strategy that relies on breaking an opponent's robot is not consistent with the spirit of FIRST. I hope you weren't offended...

[Zoheb N]

It is alright. I had just misinterpreted what you said. I had thought you meant our alliance had strategized to make sure the Brazilian team could not score, but that last post clarified things. Thanks for the clarification.

[SU 39]

Thanks to team 148 and 1750 for being great alliance partners. It was very exciting for us to be teamed up with 148 as we both could place high amounts of ringers. The great defense of 1750 allowed us to get a 256-0 win in the 2nd match of quarterfinals.

[newton418]

Originally Posted by EricH

Webcast: I believe it would have been high speed, long distance ramming.

16 drew 30 points for home zone violation (I believe). blue in red zone...15 seconds...-30 points.

I would have thought this, but someone on the field (in the chaos I don't remember who) told me that the initial impact was not the reason for the red card. I do not know how credible the source was, since a lot of things were said and thought on the field, but that reason would seem inconsistent with the rulings earlier that day, and the previous two days. Additionally, IF it was interpreted that I (the driver of the 418 robot) was trying to intentionally "tip over" 1745 it would obviously be a violation of rule <G35>*, which, to me, is reasonable grounds for a red card.

*<G35> Intentional ROBOT - ROBOT interaction - Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping over, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not in the spirit of the FIRST Robotics Competition and are not allowed.

[bhweezer]

The elimination rounds at Lone Star this year were probably the best I've seen in the past couple of years. Those matches were really intense! Congrats to 118, 1745, and 476! Good luck at Nationals.