Week 5 Impressions of the Rack. The Conclusion of the Games.

[Jonathan Norris]

Twice my teams alliance has been paired against the single all defensive alliance, in Waterloo against (68, 830, 758) and at GTR (48, 1006, 379). Both times we were the main offensive robot for our alliance, and both times it came down to ramps.

in Waterloo it was all ramps, 830 played some smart D and beat us up, we could only scored a couple, and we advanced because we had the better ramp bot (thou they didn't move from the home zone).

At GTR 48 was a feared defender... they could shut anyone down, even 1114 was scared to face them (1114 is amazing at scoring through defense). Being the top scorer for our alliance we knew 48 was going to be on us the whole time, and they were. They are smart defenders, not only is their drive a beast and can push anything their drivers are smart 'time wasters'. At the beginning of the matches they would trap us in our home zone, the only way we could get by is kicking it into high gear. Then when we would go to score they would pin us there for a while before or after we put a tube on. These guys are smart defenders, against two good scores they were able to keep us to 4-5 tubes in total (usually separated), and it all came down to ramps (which we fell off ). If 48 hadn't lost their track I believe they would have made the finals and given 1114 a very hard time.

After all that I would agree that a defensive alliance can be very effective, but must have a very good ramp bot to back it up. However, an alliance with two elite scorers is still very tough to beat, even with the best defense.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Defense is not ramming other robots. If you watch any of the matches that Team 48 at GTR you will see excellent defense. I hate to blow Team 48's horn (man do their heads swell) but they played the best defense next to Team 4 that I have seen this year. They play smart and clean not rough. A lot of the time they just kept between the Rack and their opponent. If anything the opponent was ramming them trying to get by or push them to the rack.



Disclaimer - this post was in no way meant to allow the swelling of Travis's head. Man we all know how big it is already.

I don't think we are God's gift to defense (thanks for the compliments, though!), although I am obviously very proud of the safe, effective strategy our drivers employ. I hear the compliments from the "defended" and am happy our kids have figured out how to defend without overdoing it. Our buddies on Team 379 have also shown a knack for laying down the D. We here in the FIRST community are constantly complaining about teams who play defense the "wrong way". If we are to change this nasty habit, then instead of simply saying "get rid of defense", I'd instead like to start highlighting those teams who know how to play it THE RIGHT WAY. I'd gladly love to hear more examples and watch more videos of effective and safe defense from other teams (such as Steve and his compliment of Team 4). I'm sure there are many fine examples out there - let's publicize them and use these examples to educate.

This thread is all about opinions on how the season has played out. As stated above these posts aren't meant to promote our team, although I can see that it is a byproduct of what I am trying to say and how I'm trying to say it. If anyone takes these statements the wrong way, I can't do anything about it. I will not retract what I have said. I'm just trying to defend the "Way of the Defender" as a viable strategy to put up against the potent offensive alliances. I have definitive proof it can work. Will such a team defensive strategy work in Atlanta? Again, we'll find out.

By the way, this has been woven into the fabric of my comments all along, but many of you who don't know me may fail to understand how I truly feel - none of the success we've achieved this year could have been accomplished without great defensive partners working alongside us in the eliminations- thank you Teams 222 and 379 - and our offensive bot scoring behind us - thank you Teams 1038, 291, and 1006 - it was our teamwork that made our strategies effective! We all shared equally in the tasks, and we all received the same rewards as a result of our efforts. It's also this teamwork and communication on the field and during our strategy meetings that has made this game and this season so much fun for me. Dave and the GDC deserve credit for creating a game in which both offensive and defensive alliances can be successful.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Jason:

One isn't enough to keep the scoring down. I won't go into details ...

Precisely my point... in Portland one strong defender could really wreak havoc because the alliances just could not score as well as at GTR. At GTR it took two defenders... at Atlanta... will it require 3 dedicated defenders? My post was mainly intended to suggest that depending on which regional one experienced, their opinion of the game might be quite different.

In hockey it is well known that offense wins fans, but defense wins championships. I don't think this will be the case, however, for Rack'n'Roll, because some of the potential offensive alliances that might arise could simply score two or three ringers during auto and the main part of the match, then throw four or five more on during the end game while the ramp bots are too busy climbing to play D.

But as for the main point of the thread, if it is still up for discussion whether Defense or Offense is the more effective strategy, then I guess the game has worked out pretty well after all.

Jason

[Molly Stieber]

I wasn't to happy with the algorithm that FIRST used to pick alliances at regionals, for some unknown reason, we never seemed to be with any of the top 8 robots during qualifying matches. It was very frustrating.