Best Atlanta Alliances

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

How about three offensive robots that can also play defense? Those of you rampers that think you will have undefended ramping at the Championships like you did at most regionals are in for a rude awakening.

You rampers that are playing defense on the far side of the field better beware because the smarter offensive robots will trap you on that far side of the field. Then what?

Let's see ... 24 places to score between 3 robots or one place to score (60 pts) completely depending on your ramper ......

I think the threat of the ramp is more important than actual ramping (in eliminations). Three decent scorers is devastating to try to stop.

If you want my ideal alliance: 2 scoring / defensive hybrids that MUST be able to score on the top spider and a Hybrid that is decent at scoring.

By the way, by my count there are at least 24 good scorers in Galileo which means our division has a great chance on Einstein (whoever represents us).

With that said, you great double rampers in Galileo will be a hot commodity since most people believe the ramp is absolutely critical ... I'm just not one of them.

I think it's plausible that an alliance that exclusively plays offense during its matches can win, but it seems like an enormous risk to attempt to do so regularly. You're putting a lot of stock in the superiority of your machines -- perhaps going so far as to think that your three machines can outscore your opponents even while defended. There may be some teams that are that good, but I don't think it's the huge number that some folks do. The pool of teams that can score well if left undefended, however, is gigantic, so why would you want to double or triple the number of teams that can possibly beat your alliance but leaving them alone? Put one defender on the other side of the field and three offensive machines will start to get in one another's way. Put two defenders over there, if you dare, and you can probably shut the factory down and send the workers home -- if you feel confident that you can get those machines back home after you've gone and messed things up quite so badly.

As well as I can see, you're going to want some sort of somewhat dedicated defensive capabilities, so that may as well be a quick, reliable lifting machine. If a defender does their job well, they'll minimize the opponents score such that a 30 or 60 point bonus will be devastating. I'd rather win matches 68-8 than I would to win them 128-64 or something similar; one win is decisive and one is by the skin of your teeth, and obviously, that has nothing to do with which number is bigger.

I guess we'll see. All of this ought to be fun, in any case, and I'll take matches one at a time and think about strategy some more as it requires. There're probably a thousand different scenarios that you could speculate about in advance and doing so will only give me anxiety.

[xzvrw2]

Here is an alliance that i would love to see...not because i am bias but becuase it shows what kind of alliance i think will win:

111 469 65

That type of alliance this year would be my perfect alliance. Two really awesome scorers (111 65) and one hybrid that pwns in all aspects of the game (469)

some hybrids that i seen that i liked this year for that area were 107 469 71 1023(they wont be at nats tho) 229

but then again...there is some teams out there that are straight rams that are killer...903 and 247...having one of those two teams on your alliance would be killer. they are awesome at defence and have sweet ramps that will hold two up with no questions asked. 548 too (at least i think they are just a ramp)

some scoreres that i seen that i like this year are teams like 111 65 1504 1114 67 648 1444 45 148 217 123 1126 573 494 1503 (those are just off the top of my head)

those would be my teams that i think that will rock at nats this year...so pretty much get an aliance with any of thise teams and you will pwn

[BRosser314]

Hmmmm ultimate alliance post, as much as I would like to say my team and two other great teams, I will not list any teams but ours. Showing who you pick can sometimes discourgae teams, but I would think the ultimate alliance, would be made up of 1 great ramp bot with great defense, 1 great arm bot with a speedy arm- not needing to be hybrid but can, and 1 hybrid with fast scoring- and a ramp that is 4'x8' and can elevate to 12"- and is a hybrid

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by xzvrw2

Here is an alliance that i would love to see...not because i am bias but becuase it shows what kind of alliance i think will win:

111 469 65

Oh, your not biased....Its only the 2003 championship alliance, that you were on the team for. To bad it wont happen this year.

[BRosser314]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

Oh, your not biased....Its only the 2003 championship alliance, that you were on the team for. To bad it wont happen this year.

Gotcha i actually wasnt on the team in 2003, i was on 314, i am a mentor for 469 due to my Co-op job for JSP one of there sponsors. I was on 314 for my high school years

[Guy Davidson]

I'd be very, very afraid from an alliance with a hybrid scorer / ramp and two scorers. Case in point, if any two out of 1114, 330, and 234 and end together (especially if 1114 and 330), I'd be afraid. This is a game that is prone to surprises, but those guys scare me.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

How about three offensive robots that can also play defense? Those of you rampers that think you will have undefended ramping at the Championships like you did at most regionals are in for a rude awakening.

You rampers that are playing defense on the far side of the field better beware because the smarter offensive robots will trap you on that far side of the field. Then what?

Let's see ... 24 places to score between 3 robots or one place to score (60 pts) completely depending on your ramper ......

I think the threat of the ramp is more important than actual ramping (in eliminations). Three decent scorers is devastating to try to stop.

If you want my ideal alliance: 2 scoring / defensive hybrids that MUST be able to score on the top spider and a Hybrid that is decent at scoring.

Paul's strategy works, and it has been used to win a regional. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28007
The irony is that one of the great hybrids everybody loves isn't even using their ramps, they're using a "ramp trap" on the opponents, holding off both of the opposing bots from getting on 1717's ramps. 696 is also another quality hybrid on that trapping red alliance. Ramps are useful, but not always needed.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Paul's strategy works, and it has been used to win a regional. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28007
The irony is that one of the great hybrids everybody loves isn't even using their ramps, they're using a "ramp trap" on the opponents, holding off both of the opposing bots from getting on 1717's ramps. 696 is also another quality hybrid on that trapping red alliance. Ramps are useful, but not always needed.

Yup... we never even saw the trap coming... In fact, at first I thought I was keeping 330 from getting back to ramp... not the other way around...

[Marion]

Our team (1583) has a ramp bot onto which we can lift 2 bots. Come check us out in Atlanta... those 60 points REALLY help!!!

[themagic8ball]

537 was seeded 7th and we were able to pick both martians (I consider amazing scorers). It is a High Risk/high reward strategy. The problem we ran into is that we ran out of tubes at the end of the match. What you really need to make it work is 3 scorers that can pick up from the other side of the field very fast.

[hayakuneko]

realistically, the best alliance at atlanta will consist of one hybrid, one awesome scoring machine, and a bot that can score with experienced drivers to play mostly defense.

i feel somewhat bad for saying this, but the winning alliance at atlanta won't have a defensive/ramp bot as the #1 or #2 bot in the alliance. Don't bag on me for this, it's just my opinion based on what i've seen from the two regionals i've been to this year.

for example: 1070 was a great defensive/ramp bot at LA and they seeded #1; however they lost in I think it was semis or quarters? I don't know, but they lost and their first pick was 968. 330 on the other hand (a hybrid) was chosen by 254 who is an awesome scoring machine. Right from that moment, they were destined to win LA cuz there was no other alliance that could match them in pure scoring power.

on to what i was going to say. either the #1 bot in the winning alliance will be a hybrid bot (such as 330), then the #2 bot will be the pure scorer or it will be the other way around. The reason I put down defensive bots is because defense cannot win a game. Not, at least, without scoring going on in the background. I had a qualifying against 330 in SD where the coach decided to have us play with a defensive strategy. We were lucky to hold them to 16 pts and if we had another scoring robot on our alliance we could have won that match.

And the #3 bot on the winning alliance will have an experienced driver with a robot that can score, but not necessarily score well.

so there, defense can't really win on its own and I figure defense requires an experienced driver as opposed to "designing" a robot around a defensive strategy. Sure you can design the drivetrain around it, but a lot of the robots i've seen have shifting trannys anyways with a low-defensive-gear and a high-speed-gear. I think someone else out there can agree with me, or at least I hope so.

ok recap:
The seeded bot - a) scoring hybrid or b) pure scorer
First pick - a) pure scorer or b) scoring hybrid
Second pick - scoring bot w/ experienced drivers

[Chris Fultz]

I'm with Paul (I think).

Three good or great scoring robots can beat out 2 scorers with a ramp -
why, i saw it time and time again -

at 1:30, the ramp bot retreats to the home zone, 1 opposing robot is now 'free to score'
at 1:40, the other two bots retreat to the home zone, 2 more opposing robots now 'free to score'.

during ramp time - the three scorers put up another 6 - 9 tubes or spoilers and create more than the 60 points from the ramps.

[BBnum3]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

I'm with Paul (I think).

Three good or great scoring robots can beat out 2 scorers with a ramp -
why, i saw it time and time again -

at 1:30, the ramp bot retreats to the home zone, 1 opposing robot is now 'free to score'
at 1:40, the other two bots retreat to the home zone, 2 more opposing robots now 'free to score'.

during ramp time - the three scorers put up another 6 - 9 tubes or spoilers and create more than the 60 points from the ramps.

I think what you describe will happen--most of the time. With the right strategy and execution the ramp alliance has a good shot at the win. Defense is the key to the ramp alliance's success. That alliance needs to place tubes defensively to limit big rows, and the ramp needs to defend the opposing alliance's best scorer. Assuming all of the tube scoring bots are all of similar caliber this is a viable strategy. If the ramp alliance prevents any rows of more than 4 then the max score of the opposing alliance is 88. Not a bad score, but it assumes the rest of the rack is full.

Also the idea that 6-9 tubes could be put up during ramp time is not realistic. By this point in the match the 3 scorers alliance has most likely used up all of the alliance station ringers, and can't go to the other side to pick them up because of the endgame. I could see 4 or so in the last 30 seconds, but not much more. However, it's still enough to swing the outcome of the match.

What we're not taking into account here is the placing of keepers. Expect some of the top alliances to have two, if not three robots that can place keepers. If that alliance happens (and I think we'll see one) watch out.

[Joel J]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

I'm with Paul (I think).

Three good or great scoring robots can beat out 2 scorers with a ramp -
why, i saw it time and time again -

at 1:30, the ramp bot retreats to the home zone, 1 opposing robot is now 'free to score'
at 1:40, the other two bots retreat to the home zone, 2 more opposing robots now 'free to score'.

during ramp time - the three scorers put up another 6 - 9 tubes or spoilers and create more than the 60 points from the ramps.

You also aren't factoring in being blocked from making long rows by the opposing alliance.. whether on purpose, or simply from them playing the game and scoring.

When these matches heat up I say each alliance will have ramps, and the bonus points from those ramps will usually cancel each other out (the alliances without ramps won't make it to the "heat of the competition," IMO).. also, I think the rack will be close to neutral-- that is, each alliance will have a similar score on the rack. The alliance that comes out on top in these matches will be the ones capable of scoring the larger quantity of tubes in the most optimum locations on the rack. I'm seeing scores like 60+38 to 30+52, or something like that, when the competition begins to heat up.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Yup... we never even saw the trap coming... In fact, at first I thought I was keeping 330 from getting back to ramp... not the other way around...

Welcome to my parlor, said the spider to the fly.

Great example of DEFENSE by offensive guys to win. Defense wins championships woooooooooooooooot.