I Have Proof of a Water Game... sort of

[meatmanek]

Originally Posted by vadyr

a game de l'aqua es muy terrible!!!! FIRST could never pull it off...i mean im not doubting FIRST at all...but im just saying, it would be expensive, people would just quit....and it wouldnt work! the day i see a water game in FIRST is the day i quit life and live in a hole for the rest of my life. heck, i might as well live with the wolves!

I'd consider it a challenge and have fun with it.
It could level the playing field a bit - teams who have spent years perfecting their transmissions would lose that edge over rookie teams.
The only way it'd be possible would be for FIRST to provide enough equipment in the KOP to make an underwater robot - waterproof seals, bearings, propellers, rudders, a waterproof hull, waterproof crimps (just in case)...

The fun part about it would be handling your robot capsizing, especially if they made us manage something above the water...

Man, FIRST could be evil with a water game.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by Compnerd

Water + electricity= Problem.... I doubt that first would expect teams to have to seal their robots.. especially rookie teams!

It's not really a problem though if you seal the electronics before hand which would render the electroncis used now obsolete even though people have used IFI's equpiment underwater. The motor controller that the company Im interning for now has the ability to draw almost as much current as the Victor in the size of an Altoid can that has to be hermetically sealed.

[td8c]

Originally Posted by Budda648

I still think there's going to be an ice game next year instead. Maybe even flying ice where we have to pick up and deposite living penguins.

i think i see wehre u are going with that

[ChrisMcK2186]

Water would be fun. Some team would develope the sonic depth charge and the opposing alliance will pop like a balloon. Water games are possible. All you who are yelling about the impracticality, give it a rest please. This are just whims of what would be cool. We are no more serious than little kids watching cartoons. Its a fantasy that would be cool.

Chris

[spotch]

Originally Posted by ChrisMcK2186

Water would be fun. Some team would develope the sonic depth charge and the opposing alliance will pop like a balloon. Water games are possible. All you who are yelling about the impracticality, give it a rest please. This are just whims of what would be cool. We are no more serious than little kids watching cartoons. Its a fantasy that would be cool.

Chris

LOLOLOL!!! i like the depth charge idea! i could just imagine robots getting blown out of the water as the anounce screams, "OOOO!!!! and team 7869 is blown out of the water into the crowd! looks like the blue alliance in goign to take heavy penalty points for that one! "

I really like the idea of an Ice game. the st. louis regional is already on ice! (covered with plastic shingles of course!) it would really be a challenge! traction would be a serious need! i would be more than happy to pay to see FIRST make an Ice Game!

With pumps, i like that too! you could have your robot pump water from one part of the field to another or somethign like that.

will these happen? i certainly hope so! but in reality, it will take a few years before we have the funds to do it. think of how expensive the KOP would be!?!?!

[vansivallab]

maybe we have to something in water and direct it some how???? just a thought

[Shadow503]

Originally Posted by ChrisMcK2186

Water would be fun. Some team would develope the sonic depth charge and the opposing alliance will pop like a balloon. Water games are possible. All you who are yelling about the impracticality, give it a rest please. This are just whims of what would be cool. We are no more serious than little kids watching cartoons. Its a fantasy that would be cool.

Chris

Sonic Depth Charge?!?
In the spirit of FIRST? No.
Completely awesome? Yes.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but almost every regional was probably within 5 miles of a full sized community pool. Maybe it is possibly practical.

If you follow the pattern, next year's game is supposed to involve balls, so any water game would probably have to include balls somehow...

[DonRotolo]

In fact, that was a hint that they are considering eliminating all the motors from the KOP and giving teams one steam engine to power everything...

Steam Power!

Don

[BRosser314]

Originally Posted by Cuog

If anyone was at VCU today dave was talking about the game and how he got inspired for them, and he was talking about his years game then flashed up a picture of a steam powered paddle boat on a river. So that must mean water game!!

Could he have beeen talking about 2007 game, and when he meant paddelboat, he could have meant the spider, cause if you lok at the rack from the top it kinda looks like a paddle, i mean equally spaced, and same size legs.

[JaneYoung]

when I first read this, I thought of the paddle wheel and its potential.

[T3_1565]

water game is completely out of the picture. It would be too hard for FIRST to make a huge movable tank, let alone fill it with water and put it in a arena / gym. Too many problems with that. and even more to think about, what happens when a robot breaks down in said water field. Tons of robots break down on ground games, everyone hits problems, you hit a problem in a water game and your robot sunk to the bottom of the tank, have fun getting it. I doubt very very very very much that there will ever be a water game. It's far too dangerous

[Cuog]

Originally Posted by BRosser314

Could he have beeen talking about 2007 game, and when he meant paddelboat, he could have meant the spider, cause if you lok at the rack from the top it kinda looks like a paddle, i mean equally spaced, and same size legs.

Its entirely possible although he seemed to be hinting at future years... But of course Dave is well known for pointing us off his path so the GDC can blow us away next year with another amazing game.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Cuog

Its entirely possible although he seemed to be hinting at future years... But of course Dave is well known for pointing us off his path so the GDC can blow us away next year with another amazing game.

this is true indeed. I'm already pumped for what next year will be!!!

[hipsterjr]

NO MORE WATER . Think about the paddle wheel boat he was talking about. If you tip the paddle wheel vertically, it looks like the rack, thus the inspiration for the rack! And the inner tubes were only logical as a game piece for a bunch of crazy people obsessing over a water game.

[redbarron]

Maybe Dave was hinting towards a topic sort of like the hydrogen fuel cells: Alternative energy sources. I am not going to say there will never be a water game even though I dont think it is going to happen because like its been said already let people think about this stuff it wont hurt nothing. But one thing that makes me think twice about this is a thread i read before I came to this one .


This is from the thread where they are trying to come up with a alternative way to identify what alliance a team is on besides using flags.

I really hate to burst anyone's bubble. But before anyone puts a lot of effort into coming up with snazzy alternatives to the flags, we need to admit something right up front: it ain't gonna happen. Why? It is due to a simple, basic fact that everyone has skipped over so far:
$$$

Let's check some fiscal realities. A typical rotating bubble light (single bulb, 12v, single rotating element, including two single-color gels and mounting hardware), purchased in bulk, goes for about $58.50. There will be an estimated 1500 teams next year. Each team needs one, plus 10% more for spares, so 1650. That comes to a total of $96,525.*

The bright LED clusters (including 4- to 6-LED element, programmable color display, protective diffusing cover, mounting housing, and connecting hardware) came in at about $43.50 each. Each of the 1500 teams will need two (or maybe four, but let's go with the lower limit for a minute), plus 10% for spares, so 3300 units needed. That comes to a total of $143,550.*

Now consider the flags. A typical red or blue bicycle flag (impregnated fabric or urethane plastic, 10-inch size, mounted to a 1/4 inch diameter, 36-inch fiberglass whip pole) can be purchased for $6.50 (unit one). Each team does not need a flag (they just provide their own flag holders), so they don't have to be included in the kits. Each regional competition just has to have an adequate supply of the flags. Let's say they need 24 flags (six on the field, 12 more for the teams in the queue, and six more for spares). There will be an estimated 42 regional competitions next year, but only 10 running at any one time (the flags get recycled from event to event). That means you need a total of 240 flags, for a total cost of $1560.*

So, put yourself in FIRST's place. You have a choice between three options. They price out at $96.5K, $143.5K, and $1.5K. Everything that goes in the kit of parts has to be cost-justified. If you go over the set budget, every additional dollar will get passed directly to the teams. That could result in a cost increase to participate in the program. And the last time the cost of participation went up, the teams screamed bloody murder about it.

Anyone want to guess what we will have in the kit of parts for next year?

-dave

p.s. again, I am not saying any of this to put down any of the cool ideas that folks might come up with. But I am trying to remind everyone that when they start thinking about cool solutions to perceived problems, you have to make sure that the solutions address the ENTIRE problem and not just part of it. "Cost" is ALWAYS a part of the problem statement.

p.p.s. * all these prices have been normalized to reflect unit one purchases from easily identified sources. They can be reduced through bulk purchases. But the relative costs between the options will remain the same. Yes, it is probably possible to get the prices of the lights/LEDs reduced. It is also possible to get the prices of the flags reduced. So please don't nit-pick the numbers and say "but I can get the lights for $1.16 less than that from XYZ company" - that is irrelevent to the central point.

Now if he is saying this to something as small as flags what do you think the GDC will say to waterproofing robots?