Girls on FIRST teams

[LordTalps]

Girls on FIRST teams. Girls in engineering. This is a very large conundrum that stems from the moment they're out of the womb.

Well, I'm going to assume most girls are brought up and raised by their parents as exactly that -- girls. When a girl is young she gets the girl toy in her mcdonalds happy meal, the barbie doll to dress and undress and style, the small makeup kits at Christmas for that "growing young girl" and other seemingly "girl" objects. Mothers will teach them the important parts of life in being a girl, which, being a mother, will include motherly things. For the girls that become girl scouts, they sell cookies door to door and earn patches for various things.

I'm also going to assume most boys are brought up and raised by their parents as exactly that -- boys. They get the boy toy in their mcdonalds happy meal, the hot wheels cars to race, crash, put on insane tracks and subtly learn physics, the soccer ball and baseball glove for Christmas for that "active young boy" that is growing up. Fathers will teach them the important parts of life for being a guy, and this will include how to pee standing up, leave the toilet seat up, play sports better and, being the father of the house, work on the car(s). For those boys that become cub/boy scouts, they will sell popcorn door to door like a business to rival mowing lawns, race pinewood derby cars (read: power tools and physics, with cars), and earn merit badges for all sorts of applicable skills (especially the multitudes of areas that are engineering in some way shape or fashion).



Yeah, you heard me right, I'm blaming YOUR parents. They brought you up well and how they thought they should -- as the typical girl. Why are there less females in engineering than males? Because since nearly the dawn of mankind, the seemingly "natural" structure has led to women having children, and men providing for them. The women nurse the babes while the men hunt with spears for a meaty dinner. And as technology advanced, and what "providing" implied, the roles of men have simply changed to fit technology. Women still needed to take care of the young the same, however, and if anything have gained responsibilities with technology advancing. Are there examples counter to this? Of course. I would simply ask you to ignore them however for the sake of general trends, because those are what drive differences into the bedrock of society.

Does this mean women in engineering, in FIRST, is wrong? No. Does it mean that many would consider it against the norm? Quite easily. And this has created peer pressure for people to not be weird, to know their place, common phrases in a way all throughout history. Peer pressure has been a social dynamic that has perpetuated the segregated responsibilities of men and women that you can date back to cavemen.

And with the advent of so MUCH technology in these latent decades and centuries, the social dynamics are softening and blurring the lines of segregated responsibilities. At some point along the way in the women's rights movement, it became a big issue that women were equal to men. They always were, and for some reason people decided without direct correlations equaling that women and men were not equal. Sure men have, on average, stronger and larger bodies. Men also can't bear children (except for Arnold, but he's different). Is it wrong for a girl to look towards engines or engineering and decide she likes them? No. But social trends throughout all of civilization have pointed women away from such tasks, creating a mode of the roles women should undertake. Who wouldn't think it wierd that someone take up activities not normally attributed to the stereotypes they fit? It's the very definition of weird. For the sake of not being weird, and living up to becoming their parents, and other such amazing values that we've always had as humans, we have developed separate structures for what is "normal" for a guy and what is "normal" for a girl.

Peer pressure is a dying fad however, and them gals are doing what their hearts want to do more and more these days. Is it wrong? Not at all. Is it out of the norm? Yes. To quite a few, this takes a certain courage that is worth congratulating, as much as a guy on the dance team would receive for taking up his own interests against easily present social values.

Of course, I always advocate girls entering engineering. I've got a better chance to not seem so weird by liking this stuff so much if more girls like it too

edit: I just realized how much of a tangent that was off of this thread. Sorry about that. I'll make a short extra paragraph to make up for it.

The trick is many girls I've known don't stick out their necks a bit, to ask for help and seem a fool, for the sake of learning. So instead of learning about drive trains and programming, they go back to organizing the toolboxes or creating the marketing display that allows them to be a part of the team without any possibility of guilt, shame, humiliation or mockery. It's a subtle peer pressure, as far as I'm concerned, and I've seen too much of it. Then again, guys were brought up making fun of each other to build each other up -- or at least I was, being the hyper competitive guy that I am.

[Erin Rapacki]

Originally Posted by LordTalps

The trick is many girls I've known don't stick out their necks a bit, to ask for help and seem a fool, for the sake of learning. So instead of learning about drive trains and programming, they go back to organizing the toolboxes or creating the marketing display that allows them to be a part of the team without any possibility of guilt, shame, humiliation or mockery. It's a subtle peer pressure, as far as I'm concerned, and I've seen too much of it.

I've witnessed that too on co-ed teams, but not so much on my all-girls teams. The only time I didn't see it on coed teams was where they were all already a close knit group of friends or if they were all starting on the same footing (rookie team). For experienced teams, maybe mentors have to let girls (and everyone on the team for that matter) know that it's ok to as questions and make mistakes. Build a comfort zone... even the most slightly crass mentor can make somebody nervous about being wrong so they stay within their comfort zone.

Also, for me... it stopped mattering that I'm a girl a long time ago. I don't get any "wow you're a girl engineer" comments. The difference I see is, as I got older, people have a higher expectation of me. I am on the same playing field so I have to step up and know what I'm talking about. I don't win design arguements because I'm a girl; its logic, negotiation, and technical proof. But, it takes experience and confidence to discuss my ideas and points with a bunch of engineers standing in a circle trying to solve a problem... and that's what FIRST girls should be getting at some level (problem solving), just to see if they actually DO have an interest in technical stuff.

[Matt Sokol]

Our team has a pretty even ratio of girls and guys, probably not exactly 50:50 but I dunno the exact numbers.

Gender's never played a role in anything we do, there's no relevant differences between the female and male members of our team.

[John Gutmann]

I just wanna throw this out there. But who is it that decides that the ngineering world is a world for the boys? If you think about it, the majority is parents. How many of you girls had parents who bought you a tool set when you were 5? had fathers who let you help on projects around the house? Now how many of you had parents who bought you barbies and dresses?

I am not saying that girls shouldn't have dresses but if you look at it, it is how people are brought up. Who is to say boys and girls think differently? Boys and girls have different natural instincts, which well obviously I guess would make them think differently, but they have different problem solving skills becuase that is how they are brought up. What girls had parents who emphasized math science,and shop class? Now what guys had parents who emphasized having nice clothes and looking pretty?

I think that in 50 years there will be many many more girls in the fields becuase of our generation. We are all learning that girls should have the smae chance as guys, so when we have children we won't be as seperative of their fields of interest.

My 2 cents....
-John

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by sparksandtabs

I am not saying that girls shouldn't have dresses but if you look at it, it is how people are brought up. Who is to say boys and girls think differently? Boys and girls have different natural instincts, which well obviously I guess would make them think differently, but they have different problem solving skills becuase that is how they are brought up.

This is an ongoing debate....and probably off topic here...but when psychologists study the nature/nurture issue scientifically, the findings tend to show that there is a lot of built in behavior--the genetic differences are substantial. But they also show that there is an environmental effect--how you are brought up will affect later behavior.

So don't be surprised that most girls are not naturally inclined to do "boy stuff" like building robots....but also do what you can to encourage and help those that you can get interested in it! because they definitely can do technology. Ask my wife

[Zyik]

My team has always had a small number of girls. This year we had 3, out of an 11 person team. We don't have any discrimination, we all hang out together, prank each other, etc. You don't "let them do a project all by themselves" because we all work on the same project. Guess 973 is lucky this way.

[laurenlacy]

As a female on a FIRST team I must say my experience has been nothing but wonderful... because I made it that way.

FIRST, as I've seen it, has so many wonderful opportunities for young women. The problem is that they don't always want to reach for those opportunities. I will say that FIRST is maybe a place where the girls may face a greater challenge, but those sorts of challenges appear for everyone in different ways, and all that one can do is to try and overcome them.

I honestly came onto my robotics team for the business aspect, and would argue that you DON'T need to come on knowing what you're doing. I had no idea what a phillips head screwdriver was. I was there to make pretty fliers, and I still LOVE doing that. I also love that there are times when I come home and my mom is just like "don't you dare come into the house until I get everything covered because you are filthy." But I was there to learn, and I learned fast and I paid attention, and this year I was one of the core group of students who built our robot. Just like anyone, young man or woman new to the team, I had to not be afraid to ask questions. And yes, there were times when I looked ridiculous not knowing what something was, but that wasn't anything to do with me having ovaries or whatnot, it was just simply as a person who didn't know what they were doing.

Basically, I think the FIRST experience for young women is what you make of it. Yes, there will be guys who decide they have to supervise closely and then take over everything you do, but there are all sorts of girls who think that guys can't do certain things well, and that's the way our society will probably be for quite some time. My experience in FIRST has been nothing short of amazing, and I'm really excited to continue with it for the rest of my life.