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Unread 16-04-2007, 00:09
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by jill399 View Post
7- Chaiman's Honorable Mentions. Our team was going for National Chairman's, and although we figured that we wouldn't win this year, we were waiting for the Honorable Mentions. That would let our team know how much we needed to improve our program. If we got the Honorable Mention, then we could scope out which of our programs are Chairman's worthy and which of them need a lot of improvement. I'm not saying we wouldnt do this otherwise, but getting a grasp of where we stand was something we were hoping for as soon as we won Chairman's in LA. We were one of the last teams in the stands because we were waiting for those Honorable Mentions. If FIRST decided it was in the better interest of its teams to nix them, they should have made an announcement somewhere to let teams know who were going for Chairman's. We were all disappointed when the ceremonies seemed to just be over without someone saying it was over and without the Honorable Mentions. Congratulations to MOE, and I wish more teams could have understood the importance of that award for you. I understand that some of them had flights to catch and places to go, but guaranteed that at least a few teams headed over to the Wrap Party.
Change LA to NYC and you just captured my feelings exactly.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 00:50
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

-Opening Ceremonies: I understand that they want everyone on Einstein for opening ceremonies, but it would be nice if they could put them on the Newton and Archimedes screens so those of us that are watching the team laptops and jackets can see what's going on, instead of trying to listen to the terrible reverb

-Chairman's: I would prefer that there be more celebration. I understand the problems with confetti, but what about something like dropping balloons (I think they did this on 03), or at least some small pyrotechnics or something?

-Chairman's Honorable Mention: It's been said. We like to know where we stand compared to the winners (Congrats MOE 365)

-Match pairings: Random please. No more of this A B C categorizing. If the official manual specifies random partners, we expect random partners.

-Awards: Here's one I haven't seen yet. While the concept of showing video of each team's robots as they received the awards was nice, they picked probably the WORST video clips I could've imagined. Dropped tubes, showing other team's robots, it made people focus on something useless that was playing on the screen.

-Free Tube Announcement: Honestly, I missed this announcement, but I was wondering what the commotion was about. Agreed with the above, please wait until AFTER Chairman's

-DQ's: I believe this is an issue with the scoring software not being able to do this, but for the two red cards that were handed out, I would've liked to have seen the actual match scores. I don't believe either call actually made a difference, but I would've liked to have known who won each match, regardless.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 01:03
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

From a Game Announcer standpoint (and I know there's a lot more of you then there are of us) I didn't like that the refs showed the number that corresponded with the amount of the lift, and even worse the score announcer announced it to the crowd (nothing against Don Knight, who's an amazing announcer, it just irked me). I understand the refs need to communicate, but they could just walk over and tell the other ref instead of broadcasting it.

I know from past experiences (3 regionals this year) that during elims the crowd is on the edge of their seat, and if you can build that suspense it really helps the excitement. The crowd can obviously tell who won on the rack just by looking at it, unless the ringers are really scattered that the quick math is almost impossible to tell. The thing they DON'T know, is whether the robots got the 15, or 30 point bonus, which in many cases decides the match.

So by announcing what the bonus was, it totally defeats the purpose of the score slide. Granted you may not know the exact numbers...but you could pretty much figure it out. I think they should've kept it a secret until the slide is projected.

Sorry about the rant, it's just my 2% of a dollar.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 01:28
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Since consistency in complaints does indicate the seriousness of the issue, I am going to put in my part. The Chairman competitors would really like to know where they stand. The Honorable mention really did that. We too did not get any post evaluation documents indicating where we were weak or where we were strong. We did not even know there were going to be no honorable mentions. We were kind of stunned but we will get over it. Thats all I want to chime in on. Thanks

PS does anyone know why there is no honorable mentions any more?
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Unread 16-04-2007, 01:33
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Issues

Things that need improvement:

-My team only had 1 judge stop by our pit.
I know there job is hard but I don't know how awards are given out fairly if they don't talk to our students and see our robot.

-I'd like it if sundial could work in our pit.
I know they fixed it but we couldn't get a signal from our pit.

-Round schedule shouldn't have teams ever seeing each other but they did.

-They sped through the awards and didn't give them much value.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 07:50
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by Daniel Brim View Post
The Algorithm
... I miss the days of the 2005/2006 finals, where it was a clash of the titans. The most deserving team got the #1 seed, and then picked who they thought was second best. Now it's normally a random team at #1, who will either pick a begrudging team that deserved to be #1, or will pick several of the best teams, who will decline (Newton 2006, Curie 2007 are examples, although the former didn't have the algorithm of doom)....
Ouch.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 08:33
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Not having been in the stands for much of the competition I don't know how things went out there, but I do agree that the algorithm really hurt a lot of teams. Just an example, team 316 was the second seed alliance at FLR this year, a well-deserved spot. Then at Championship they didn't win a single match and came in dead last. I might not know the whole story there, but that seemed more than a little unfair.

There were also 86 teams in the division. There should be no need for any team to play with or against another team twice. As it was I think we played with 1657 twice and against them once, against 49 twice, with 1885 twice, and with 1230 once and against them once. There may even be more that I'm missing. That's four other teams that we should have been able to see in our matches.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:23
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

The only way to avoid teams leaving early during the awards is to somehow redo the schedule so that the awards end earlier. Pushing flights later into the evening becomes a travel headache. It is also difficult to begin matches on Thursday because tech-inspection takes a full day for 340 robots.

Some suggestions that would affect the competition very little:
  • Start Opening ceremonies 30-minutes early and run Friday matches 30-minutes longer. This saves an hour to help end awards earlier on Saturday.
  • During the semi's and final championship matches, put the teams and awards on a specific schedule. Run two semifinal matches, then 15-minutes of awards; then two more matches, then 15-minutes of awards. This can similarly be done for the final matches. The teams then know exactly when they must be ready. There was much dead-time waiting for the teams to return to the field after awards had been announced.
  • Do not run back-to-back practice matches and then reduce the number of practice matches. Running two consecutive practice matches is no good to a team that is not functioning well. Opening ceremonies could then possibly be on Thursday evening. This would help Friday morning matches to start on time (although matches ran ahead of schedule this year) and the opening ceremonies would not need to be rushed.

Just some thoughts after experiencing 8 championships.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:26
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by FreedomForce View Post
i want to hear someone on the DRIVE TEAM from 48 speak out about this match.... i was on the field with a media badge, and so were others, and they heard some things that the 48 mentors said that the ref should have heard as well, bc if the refs did, there should have a red flag on 48, no doubt (note, thats what i heard from other media personal, i wonder if they recorded it, well the audio anyways.)

on other topics

CANADA GOT SHAFTED IN THE AWARD CERMONIES
The tubes should have been till last, (did someone get a video of the stampede?) they should have taken all those excess ringers and tossed them down instead of confetti or balloons, (if the game piece is soft enough, make it interesting...)
1732 DIDN"T DESERVE 1ST SEED
do the closing ceremonies/finals later, have that start at a fixed time, like 8PM (prime time spotlight for TV maybe...) and have multiple plans ready just in case matches go to 3 games.
1114 GOT SHAFTED, AND IM NOT HAPPY
have alliance selections done a little differently at nationals, for those of you who don't know the winning alliance was a 8 SEED alliance, not to be taking anything away from them, but that SHOULDN'T happen, go back to the old system, and get rid of this serpentine system for Championships
1732 SHOWED THEY WERE A WIMP BY DOING WHAT THEY DID DURING ALLIANCE SELECTIONS
well, thats all i got...
I see 95% of your post disrespectful and totally not needed here on the forums. If you have a problem with a certian team, PM someone on that team and keep it private.

At no point shall anyone bash a team for being 1st seed, that is totally wrong and i am surprised this is coming from a MENTOR. Hiding it in white is childish and also not smart at all.

Also on the topic of 48 and 1114, if you're not on either teams, what right do you have to worry about it? Im sure you don't know all the logistics of what went down, which you stated in your post, once again PM a person on the team and keep it private.


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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:31
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Quote:
Originally Posted by jill399 View Post
5- Saving seats. Before championships, word was that Curie was the powerhouse division this year. Therefore, three friends and I wanted to go watch a couple finals matches. However, in the only seats we could find [to the very very left of the field] there were at least 15 rows of seats saved for teams by 2 people each. When we tried to explain that we were just sitting there for the finals, and not to worry, our team isnt going to sit here for Einstein or anything like that, team mentors/advisors/parents (not sure which of those they were) continued to tell us to move, they were saving those seats. It states clearly in the rules that saving seats is illegal. I know that making sure your team sits together is important and it's hard to have everyone in the stands at all times, but when four students want to sit in one of 3 rows youre saving for a team and an adult yells at you to leave, there's something wrong. A FIRST volunteer sitting in the back of the stands saw us move from empty row to empty row looking for seats and being told theyre saved, and she told us to go ahead and sit wherever we wanted. Turns out, we were only there for 10 minutes to watch. And no one from the other teams had come to claim their seats yet.
Hands down this is my NUMBER ONE complaint. There were displays of rudeness everywhere of this problem. I think part of the problem may be because people affiliated with a team, like parents, are not familiar with the rules and tend to hoard seats when they shouldn't.

Our team is small and didn't use many seats and generally only when we were competing. Once we sat down to the protest of a parent holding 50 seats. Later we tried to sit about 5 people down for one match under the protest of an EXTREMELY boorish and rude middle aged man wearing a bright orange shirt that was holding seats for a whole team that never showed up anytime we were around. (Newton)

I post this with great hesitation but at some point I think it excessive displays of rudeness requires recognition.

If we can't get this problem fixed then maybe we need to go to assigned seating based on a lottery for a fixed number of seats per team. If we can't start being nice to one another this is where is could wind up.

Everyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, work on developing a plan and communicating it to everyone traveling with a team, including friends and family.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:33
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Hey,


I was just wondering since i heard no offical mention of where the championships will be held next year. Does anybody know of the offical location of the 2008 Championships will be held at.

Thanks for your time,
-Cory
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:43
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by ICE MAN View Post
Hey,


I was just wondering since i heard no offical mention of where the championships will be held next year. Does anybody know of the offical location of the 2008 Championships will be held at.

Thanks for your time,
-Cory
Atlanta April 16-19, 2008 and I hope Roswell and Wheeler are back there again in 2008!
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Last edited by dangerousdave : 16-04-2007 at 10:04.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:47
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
My biggest issue is with the FVC competition
They were late with the match list anyway so why did they not remove the no show so that teams in a Championship competition where left solo. I know at our qualifier they ran the match lists about 30 min before the start of the matches to assure that everyteam was at least present.
For the awards you could not hear a thing because of the FRC fields.
They could have allowed the teams to play one more match each then do eliminations and awards on Friday night. Our team had both FRC and FVC so during awards most of our team was split between the two instead of celebrating the team that was ending their competition.
I can't believe we only had 4 qualifying matches. When undefeated teams are not alliance captains, there are needs to be more qualification matches! I don't know if any undefeated teams were left unpicked for eliminations, but that would be a lousy situation if it did happen.

The should have had moderators on the practice fields too. We had serious issues testing autonomous codes because we needed 1/2 the field. There were seldom times where 4 or 5 teams were not out at the same time. On the field with the field controls, the controls were never used since there was nobody to coordinate it.

I felt like this was still an FRC event with a Vex competition squeezed in the middle. They should try to coordinate this as 3 major events together. How about the openning ceremony being done for all 3 events together before any begin. Also, the lack of qualifying matches was explained as a way to not have Vex intefere with FRC on Saturday. This reinforces that FRC is king and Vex/LEGO must bend around FRC.

One last odditiy (not exactly a complaint)...why does FRC do alliance selections 1-8 in the first round then 8-1 in the second round and FVC does 1-8 in both rounds?

All in all, I had a great time, and I know that the Vex crew does a tremendous amount to put in this event. I just think some improvements can make it as special of an event as the FRC Championship.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 09:49
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Concerning the post by FreedomForce at 1:12AM EDT April 16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Cormier View Post
I see 95% of your post disrespectful and totally not needed here on the forums. If you have a problem with a certian team, PM someone on that team and keep it private.

At no point shall anyone bash a team for being 1st seed, that is totally wrong and i am surprised this is coming from a MENTOR. Hiding it in white is childish and also not smart at all.
Agreed, those headings and most of the content should not have been posted and it was worse doing it subliminally. As Alex said, if you had to say it you should have said it in a PM.
Dave
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Last edited by dangerousdave : 16-04-2007 at 10:06.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 10:03
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
About teams leaving before Chairmans:
This has always been an issue, but it isn't really avoidable. Many teams had flights they had to catch, and were not able to say later, they had to leave when they did.


My biggest complaint is the lack of Chairman's honorable mentions. Bring 'em back!
Also, some of the reffing was questionable (at best).
Maybe this shouldn't be necessary, but the way to make sure everyone stays for the Chairman's Award presentation is to have the presentation before the second, and potentially last match.
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