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  #91   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-04-2007, 12:53
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
My biggest complaint was the sound system in the pits. Our team brought extra motors, BB transmissions, and other extra stuff to share with other teams, but I never could understand a single thing they ever said on the microphone. Most of the time I can only hear about half of the team number and can never make out exactly what they need. I want to help other teams!!!
Perhaps this could be incorporated into Sundial somehow where you can scroll through a listing to see who needs what.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 13:05
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

I too agree with the leaving of people before the awards completed.

I think FIRST should not have told people they were going to give out tubes. This caused A HUGE rush for the field. And i think the people that rushed the fields were very disrespectful to the teams trying to listen to the rest of the ceremony and the teams that were receiving their trophies at the time.

I know FIRST tried their best with the black wrist bands to make sure teams only had 2 people in the student representative seats....but i still saw a team with 5 students....5!!
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Unread 16-04-2007, 13:12
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
2) The FVC World Championship as it sits could benefit greatly from being extended or split into its own divisions. With four matches, one bad match could kill a team entirely. (Granted, a truly great scout would catch a team with promise regardless of one bad match.)
I agree with Billfred here. 100 teams could be split into 2 divisions of 50 easily(there are already two fields...so ONE field per division, like FRC, wouldn't be that bad.). Since teams only got 4 matches, as Billfred mentioned, teams with one loss (like 1114*) would plummet in rankings, killing their chances to get picked due to lack of scouting (something that should be fiixed). However this wasn't the case for the 3-1-0 team 1114 who still was picked, but the 4-0-0 (with 2 replays and wins of the same match coming to a 6-0-0) team 1712 was NOT picked.... something I still don't understand. Splitting the field into 2 divisions would give teams more matches, and really make the teams that perform stand out.

If divisions isn't the way to go, then have both fields play at once! Alternating fields draws attention to one game at once, but also cuts the amount of matches each team gets.

And if that idea isn't liked, then follow the FRC route, start earlier and play for 3 days. I think that most vex teams weren't watching the FRC championships, so where were they then? The social! If they were to continue playing at the same time as FRC then the whole keep EVERYONE at the dome till matches and awards are done would be easily done.

* I do not mean to be hostile towards fvc1114, you guys and gals have a great team and deserved the win.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 13:26
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by Mr MOE View Post
* TIME FOR FINALS / AWARDS
Either FIRST should shorten the awards/finals or incorporate the actual running time in the program. For the past X years, this part of the Championship has taken longer than allotted in the schedule. Let's just modify the schedule to indicate their true length. Then teams can plan accordingly and, perhaps, will not need to leave before they are complete.
CONGRADULATIONS MOE!!!!!!

I say this on behalf of all of Team 2228 because unfortunally we were one of the teams that had to leave early. You guys know how much we love MOE. I know you believe me when I say we were excited for you when we found out at the train station that you guys won. Congratulations again, we couldn't be happier for team MOE.

Just a note on us having to leave early. We planned our trip according to the FIRST schedule. We knew our departure was going to cut it close but we thought we would be able to see it all. As I've read from other posts, the finals run long every year. If so, I think it should reflect in the schedule so if possible, teams can plan accordingly. We left our seats in front of Galileo during one of the dancing intermissions and tried to do so as quickly and quietly as possible. My apology’s if we were too noisy or in the way.

Just some things I as a first time attendee think can be improved.

*MORE QUALIFICAION MATCHES
One of the things my team discussed on the way back home was the price vs game time. Going to Championships is an enormous amount to only play 7 qualification matches. With more and more regionals being added, this number is only going to get lower. We are considering limiting the number of times we go to once every four years max, regardless of weather we qualify or not. Even just 3 more qualification matches could justify this price tag a bit more. There are two ways I can see to increase the number of matches.

One is to add a fifth field. I think it would be great if the side seats were taken advantage of by adding a field on the side opposite the pit entrance. If that makes sense to anyone. From what I saw, there should be enough space to fit another field. The other limitation would be volunteer and tech personal, to which supply I cannot speak to.

The other would be to extend the competition into Wednesday. Maybe change weds morn to uncrating, weds afternoon to working and practice matches, Thursday morning more practice, Thursday aft to sat morning qualification rounds. Even though this would drive the price tag up, I think it would make Championships a much more wholesome and cost worthy experience.

*GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM
Although FIRST cannot do anything about these issue's, I think they need to be brought up anyways. One lack of GP occurred on Friday morning. On Thursday, our team got to the dome early and got front row seats to Galileo right next to the pit entrance. On Friday we got the dome even earlier hoping to get the same seats. When we got there on Friday the dome staff had it roped off because of leaking water. We dealt with this by sending most of the team to sit on the other side of the pit entrance and leaving some members at the top of the stairs with the official so that we could get those seats then send the rest of the team over. What happened was a team jumped the caution tape, sat down, and then when told by the dome staff that they had to move, blatantly refused. From what I heard (at this point I was in the pits getting ready for qual rounds) the dome staff was yelling at this team demanding that they move, and this team completely ignored them. Not only is this unfair to teams that listened to the officials, it gives a bad impression to the entire dome staff about the type of people who compete in FIRST Robotics. In the end this worked out best for us because we were able to cheer for other teams much more effectively (giving everyone high fives as they walk out is awesome) even if our view of our field was pretty bad.

Another occurrence might not necessarily be a lack of GP, but we kind of expected from what we have heard from other teams, and from what we have experienced with other teams. Twice during the competition our bot ended up with our wheels in the air, not by our own actions. Both times neither team talked to us. In practice rounds, when our forklifts fell off while playing defense against 191 (completely our fault), they came right over after the match and said, 'did you caught in something? can it be fixed? is there a way we can help?' I don't expect this from a team every time something goes wrong, but when our bot is disabled, it would be nice to at least get a, 'hey guys, our bad.'

I don’t want to make it sound like I’m whining, but from I had been told to expect from FIRST teams, especially low number FIRST teams, this is below the bar of expectations.

*PENALTY CONSISTANCEY
I know the refs are hard working people and I appreciate all they do, and this has been addressed already so all I'll say is that it is extremely disheartening to get tipped and have no penalty called, and then seeing later a disqualification right away on Einstein for the same thing.

Overall it was a great experience but I think with some changes that it can be much better.
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Last edited by triggerhappy336 : 16-04-2007 at 13:29.
  #95   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-04-2007, 13:45
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

FVC needs to be a three-day event next year! With the rate at which the FIRST Vex Challenge has been growing, and with the relative small number of four qualification rounds for each competing team, adding another day (Saturday) onto the FVC competition is a much needed and deserved addition to the Championships.

Quote:
Parking price reduction. Not sure how. But I had some friends in the ATL area (within an hour away) that were turned off by coming to simply watch the event because of parking prices. I think that offering some kind of compensation would increase outside spectator participation.
FIRST cannot change the price the venue sets for parking, unless FIRST decides to cover the parking costs themselves. If you would like to save money on parking, go to one of the MARTA stations in the Atlanta suburbs with free parking, and take the train into downtown Atlanta, which is only $1.75 per ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightWaves1636 View Post
5.The "commercials" - I think it would have better if they did close ups of the drivers getting ready, the crowds cheering, I don't know, the energy seemed lower than it could have been.
Just like during any other sporting event, the event sponsors pay many of the bills and rightfully deserve commercial time as one of their perks for sponsoring the event.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 14:20
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

Some things here reflect our experiences at regional events, but echo some of what others have been saying about Atlanta, as well.
  • I'd like to see a bit more consideration given to the pit layout. There were gigantic aisles between divisions and very narrow aisles within them. A column sat in the middle of the aisle in front of our pit, making it very difficult to get around. Perhaps it'd be possible to have "robot lanes," that people can avoid so your ankles aren't destroyed by overzealous kids with a heavy robot cart.
  • Leave the practice fields within the pits assembled and open to teams until elimination rounds begin! In both Portland and Atlanta, we would have liked to give our alliance partners some practice climbing our lifts and had difficulty doing so because the practice field was disassembled.
  • If the field is running ahead of schedule, STOP. There is no way for teams to know that the event is ahead of schedule and by running through matches so quickly, we're receiving even less of the precious time we need to repair and maintain the robots.
  • The kids on our team would've liked the opportunity to spend some more time speaking with the judges. They felt that a single, short visit by one judge didn't give them enough chance to explain what they loved about their experiences and were upset that no others came by.
  • In the future, can all teams avoid the destruction of entire Amazonian rainforests or something by printing about ten thousand fewer flyers reminding me to wear safety glasses?
  • Carpet the major passageways within the pit, at the very least, if not the whole thing. Trade shows can manage it, so let's do the same. It'd make things a bit easier on everyone's feet and the aesthetic of the entire pit will improve dramatically. Make it seem like we're supposed to be there -- not that someone left a loading dock unlocked overnight and we snuck in.
  • Place signs at the end of each aisle within the pit that list the range of team numbers represented. Instead of what you'd see in the supermarket -- cereal, cookies, soda -- it'd show, "Teams 503-353".
  • The Galileo ranking information did not update at all between the start of lunch and nearly the end of the day, Friday. This is not so good for team morale (or scouting) when you've lost the matches that are displayed and won all of the rest.
  • Navigating the hierarchy of volunteers and staff at the event can be baffling and waste enormous amounts of time. FIRST ought to consider having a 'team advocate' or similar available that is intimately familiar with the staff and volunteer positions and responsibilities at the event and can help teams with some of the more challenging problems and questions that sometimes come up during the event.
  • Some folks need to remember that, despite all of the money spent and the hours worked, this is just a game and chill out a little bit. I left the event with a far lesser opinion of some teams and individuals than I had upon arrival. I should not have to make excuses for other teams' behavior while interacting with my team members.

I think these are small things, all considered, and the event is run well. It's just not... exciting. This is the second year that we've had members that felt like the Championship is less fun and less worthwhile than the regional events.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 14:41
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

There needs to be more things to do after the competition is over for the day, more places to eat, other than Papa John's, and better weather too...lol....there are also alot of little things that are wrong with Atlanta itself, like trans. and sanitation....
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Unread 16-04-2007, 14:43
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

I agree with everyone about the consistency of ref calls. While I was only on Galileo, I noticed inconsistency on not only the same calls within the matches we competed, but in the other matches on the field, and even from many of the divisions to einstein.

I would also like to appoligize for 229's early departure from the competition, but like 2228 we had to catch a train (the same train) to come all the way up the coast to get back home. It would have made what turned out, because of weather and other issues, to be a longer than expected ride twice as long.

And I appoligize if any of this has been said already by another member of our team.


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Unread 16-04-2007, 14:45
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

One thing that I would like to see improved is the way the matches are shot for the screens in the pits. I'm often in the pits for the entire event, and rarely am able to see matches in person. Throughout the day, I go over to the big screen and watch some matches when I get some spare time. It was very frustrating to not be able to see what was going on on the entire field. For example, I was watching one of our matches and we were making an attempt to climb our alliance partner's ramp. Just as we started to drive up it, they switched to a view of the opposite side of the field. They also did some really close up shots that, due to the nature of the rack, made it very hard to see what was going on.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 15:03
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

I watched the webcast of Curie for most of the competition, and the lack of audio during alliance selection was a big disappointment.

I would have preferred to see fewer ads and more of the field setup time, particularly since the ads didn't usually make a great deal of sense without the corresponding audio tracks. While I appreciate the need to recognize the sponsors, this wasn't a terribly effective way of doing it.

In addition to using split-screen for autonomous mode, it would be nice to do something similar for the endgame so you can see ramping/lifting action at both ends of the field or watch rack scoring by one alliance while the other alliance is ramping.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 15:04
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by chaoticprout View Post
My biggest complaint was the announcement of the free for all for the tubes on the field right before the chairmans award. Many people ran for it and didn't come back to see it and it really took away from the importance of the award.
Ditto
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Unread 16-04-2007, 16:20
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by CrosbyAR View Post
I would also like to appoligize for 229's early departure from the competition, but like 2228 we had to catch a train (the same train) to come all the way up the coast to get back home. It would have made what turned out, because of weather and other issues, to be a longer than expected ride twice as long.

And I appoligize if any of this has been said already by another member of our team.


-Alex (Coach)
Im just curious, had your team made it to Einstien what would you have done?
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Unread 16-04-2007, 17:37
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

I would really like if teams stopped posting so many flyers about 'safety'. It's one thing to promote safety, but I feel the amount of these posters all over the pits was a bit too much and was very annoying. Its quite apparent that the only reason people are trying to be safe is to win an award. I feel the original intent of the safety award has been lost, and its existence is hampering the quality of the events.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 17:46
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

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Originally Posted by BoyWithCape195 View Post
Im just curious, had your team made it to Einstien what would you have done?
Probably the same thing our team would've done, play as long as we were in and then hope to god we catch the train. It ended up being delayed an hour so they prob would've made it anyways.
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Unread 16-04-2007, 19:25
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

1. Awards Ceremony

This happens every year, the final ceremony always runs longer than expected. When my team saw that it was scheduled from 4:00 to 6:00, we started almost taking bets about how long it would actually go. We had to leave just after 7:00 pm, as a result of a combination of rookies who didn't realise about the Chairman's and the teachers who said we absolutely had to leave after the last match since they'd had enough of the competition and we had told the bus driver that we would be out by 6:00 and wanted to leave before the storm hit the east coast. I would have no problem if FIRST would mark out a longer time for the ceremony, I just think that it would be much fairer to teams who have to leave that night or want to attend the team social.

Also, I think its totally hypocritical that FIRST makes such a big deal that we have deadlines to produce the robot, yet they act as if their deadlines are no big deal. Up until that point, the scheduling was fine (the matches were even running ahead of schedule, which was great!), but we produce our most important "product", our robot, on time, and its insane when FIRST consistently produces their most important "product" at Atlanta, the closing ceremonies, late and over time.

2. Judging

I was very disappointed by the judging. 342 was not expecting any awards, but we felt very shocked at some of the judges' behaviour (myself especially as team spokesperson, trying to train someone else, as this is my last season as a student). We always invite (politely) all judges to stop by our pit area by offering them a button, introducing ourselves and thanking them for volunteering. Many judges would ignore me and Catharine, walking right past us or glaring at us as we tried to give them a button. The two or three that were assigned to our team, acted like it was almost an afterthought to come by.

The safety judges were also as confusing. I saw most of them huddled in corners talking or just walking around. This was very different than in Palmetto, where the judges were always watching. Many teams never yelled "robot coming through!" and I almost got run over probably a couple dozen times, sometimes in full view of the safety judges, who simply didn't seem interested or like they wre paying attention. I was shocked at this, since I figured that safety judges were there not just to judge the competition, but also to help keep people safe.

Not really a complaint, but I'd also be curious to hear the experiences foreign teams has had with judging. I know in FLL, translators are provided, but I was wondering if anyone has any problems with judge miscommunications. I just mention this because Friday while asking a safety judge where a team was, I saw him go ballistic on an Israeli mentor (who I don't think spoke English), screaming at him from the entrance of the pit area to wear his safety glasses. The safety signs in different languages were a great idea (although, not taping them to the floor would also be a great idea )

I understand if there is a massive judge shortage (I know that was a problem at Palmetto, but the judges still spent a lot of time with each team), and that I do not know how to solve. However, I would suggest FIRST recruting former students and mentors to team up with the professionals, since they would have a different take on teams that perhaps the professional judges that have not participated in FIRST.

Otherwise, I had a great time. Other than the walk between the Dome and pits (which I didn't think was that bad, I certainly needed the exercise after eating all the junk food!), I think the location is great. Atlanta is definetly not my favourite city, but FIRST can't do anything about the crime and the Hyatt area seemed rather safe. The event volunteers were saints and I got to meet FLL and FRC teams from all over the planet (thanks to 401 -My deep condolences to all VT students on CD-, 1188, 1574, 2238 and some FLL teams for letting me hang out with them) and, of course, we had a wonderful time as a team in Atlanta. Good luck to everyone next year!
__________________
~Go Socceroos!~
Proud Young Adult Mentor of: (2006-7) Team 530 - The Nano Ninjas! ttclegoleague.tridenttech.edu
Runners up for 2006-2007 SC Champion's Award!!!
(2005-6) Team 164 - The Beach Busters: 2006 SC DIRECTOR'S AWARD WINNERS!!!!!!
(2004-5) Team 24 - The Incredibotz: Team Spirit, & 3rd Place Robot Performance
Proud Former Member of:
(2003-4) Team 1425 - Marz Botz: 2004 SC State Director's Award!
(2002-3) Team 1048 - City Botz: 2004 SC State Director's Award Runner Up
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