Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

[Otaku]

I heard that after FIRST said that people could take ringers that the Dome turned into a madhouse.


I'd say that they should organize that a little bit better. Have people make lines, ask for a certain amount of game pieces (with a limit of something like 10), and keep the "no running" rule in place (like in the pits... although I never got dinged for running in the pits, and there were segways and Ford Thinks there after all...), and tell people that if they're going to jump around, to do it AWAY from expensive stuff.

But that should be common sense.




All I can say is that FVC and FLL didn't get enough space or recognition. A lot of what I've seen about FIRST focuses on FRC, which is a shame, really, because FLL and Vex are pretty cool too.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by dsmoker

Let me start off by saying that this was our team's first trip to Atlanta (we never qualified before and barely raised the money once we did). On the whole it was an excellent experience, with a few minor drawbacks:

1. We were initially told there would be a shuttle from our hotel to the convention center. There was not. It was about a 20 min. walk, which seemed a lot longer at the end of a long day.

Where was your hotel? I'm sure if it was near one of the MARTA stations downtown that could have saved you a bunch of walking. (The train trip would probably still take about 20 minutes, but at least you'd be sitting on a train instead of walking after a long day.)

Originally Posted by dsmoker

3. There was no where in the pit area to sit down. At the UTC Regional, which we attend each year, there are tables and chairs to the side of the pit area so teams can sit and even eat during strategy sessions once alliances are formed. Our drive team never got to eat before the quarterfinals, and if we had won wouldn't have gotten to eat for quite some time, as no food could be brought into the pits. Knowing this, should we qualify again (and have enough money) I would plan to do what I saw some teams do, that is design toolboxes to double as seating areas for the pit crew.

In the pits (Building C of the GWCC), there were TONS of seats in the lobby outside the pit floor space. If you went up to the second level, there were even more couches, chairs, and even a [rather high priced] food court with pretty decent food, which is much better than the food in the GA Dome.

Originally Posted by vadyr

Thirdly, the divisions are too large. Having more divisions (i.e. six divisions) would lessen the amount of teams in each division and allow each team to participate in more matches. Scouting would be more manageable for less experienced teams. This year, there were six or seven regionals occurring simultaneously each week. Next year there will be 41 regionals in five weeks, averaging to over 8 fields a week. At least one week will require 9 fields. Thus, FIRST will have enough fields for each of the 6 divisions, two practice fields, and the Einstein field.

The number of teams in each division at the Championships has not changed in several years; they have always been about 85 teams. As this has been discussed before, there will most likely never be six divisions at the Championship Event. Logistically, it would be impossible to fit six FRC fields into the GA Dome, in addition to the daVinci and Einstein fields. There is no way you'd ever be able to "comfortably" fit eight fields on the floor space of the Dome.

If you try to cram more fields into there, you start getting into issues like the audio/game announcements with one field being clearly audible from another causing confusion, etc. among spectators. You also have to get enough qualified volunteers to run two additional fields, which might prove very difficult, especially for "key" positions.

[ScoutingNerd175]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

• Leave the practice fields within the pits assembled and open to teams until elimination rounds begin! In both Portland and Atlanta, we would have liked to give our alliance partners some practice climbing our lifts and had difficulty doing so because the practice field was disassembled.

This point confuses me. Not because I don't think it is completely valid, but because I don't understand why it was happening. I worked the practice field all three days at the UTC regional. On Saturday I was asked to keep working the field until (I believe) 4:00. This is, obviously, near to the end of elimination rounds. I absolutely think that this is what should have been done. I know that, aside from giving alliances time to practice, there were 3-4 teams who spent a few hours working with their robots once teams in an alliance were no longer using it. I was happy to continue working the field during this time (although I will absolutely admit to leaving to watch ACES High play in the semis and finals, considering that they are my former team's sister team). I don't really understand why practice fields were being shut down before eliminations even began at any event. I can see shutting them down once eliminations have begun at the championships because it is the last FIRST event of the season, and teams can't really bring their robots back to work on in between finals matches. But I don't understand why, when at UTC we left the practice field open until 4:00, the fields were closed before 1:00 at other regionals or championships.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by ScoutingNerd175

TBut I don't understand why, when at UTC we left the practice field open until 4:00, the fields were closed before 1:00 at other regionals or championships.

I can only assume FIRST pays for space in the GWCC on a daily basis, and every measure possible needed to be taken to get the pits cleaned and packed by Saturday night. Obviously you can't start ripping down pit areas while teams are still competing, so the practice field seems like a logical place to start.

[dangerousdave]

Originally Posted by vadyr

As a veteran team that has attended ten Championship Events, we were disappointed to find that our experience this past weekend in Atlanta was not all that we had hoped. There are several improvements that could be made to better the experience for all teams:

......
Thirdly, the divisions are too large. Having more divisions (i.e. six divisions) would lessen the amount of teams in each division and allow each team to participate in more matches. Scouting would be more manageable for less experienced teams. This year, there were six or seven regionals occurring simultaneously each week. Next year there will be 41 regionals in five weeks, averaging to over 8 fields a week. At least one week will require 9 fields. Thus, FIRST will have enough fields for each of the 6 divisions, two practice fields, and the Einstein field.

......
Finally, the venue and location are suboptimal. The Georgia Dome venue is impersonal compared to most regionals. The large distances between the stands, fields, and pits fragment teams. The city of Atlanta is not an appropriate location for several reasons. This year, the team witnessed several crimes. A week before the Championship Event, a shooting occurred at the CNN Center, where some teams stayed. On Wednesday, one of our team parents witnessed a drug bust outside of our hotel, the Marriott Renaissance. On Thursday, an armed man was shot by World Conference Center police in Centennial Park, the planned site for the FIRST Finale Party, which was also witnessed by a team engineer. On Friday, police chased a robber/murderer through the lobby of our hotel and we had to remain on lock down for several hours. We also witnessed several crimes on the MARTA rail line (drug deals, theft, etc.). All of these situations put all teams at risk.

Hopefully these issues will be considered by the FIRST administration in order to make future Championship Events as rewarding as possible for all participating teams.

Sincerely,

Nate Thomas
President

Corey Koenig
President, Treasurer

Bobby Trotta
Vice President, Driver

Nate, Corey & Bobby...I had previously responded to your comment in the Championship positive thread where you cross posted, which I assume you know you are not supposed to do. I have deleted my post there and moved it here. Anyway, sorry that your experience was not what you had hoped for.

Your post about needing 6 divisional fields is a little confusing. I assume you are talking about the Championship event but then you talk about the 41 regionals and I am not sure how that relates to having enough room for 6 divisions at Championships.

Where are you going to put 6 divisional fields in any enclosed venue in the world? Remember that there are JFLL, FLL & FVC events that need space at the same time as FRC also. You must also have room for all of the team members and guests in raised stands close to each field. I think that most FRC teams were happy to have 7 matches as they may have been expecting less with so many teams in the competition. Be happy that your team was able to attend as there were some teams that could not get a spot.

As far as Atlanta goes, can you tell me where is a venue the size of the GA Dome that is not impersonal compared to the small arenas that the regionals are held in? The distance between the pits and the field was improved greatly following the first year in Atlanta in 2004. With an event this size you are going to have to walk much longer distances than at a regional.

I have no doubt that the crimes you mentioned occurred and they are regretable. I am very happy that as far as I know, there were not any First teams directly involved in any of them. You appear to be from somewhere in PA so can I assume that you have been to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? Do you not think that the crime is not the same or worse there or in any other large metropolitan city which is necessary to hold an event this size? Yes it was terrible that what you mentioned happened but I believe you will unfortunately see that in any large city.

Yes as you can see, I am a local Atlanta person but I think that others that are not will agree that for the most part, Atlanta has the infrastructure to handle this event and in a friendly manner. There are very few cities that have a domed football sized stadium next to a convention center, over 10,000 downtown hotel rooms, reasonably priced restaurants right next door, a rapid rail transit system to get you there from the worlds busiest airport.

I hope your team will return to Atlanta on April 16-19, 2008 or on April 15-18, 2009 for the Championship event. I hope your opinion of this location will change for the better. I am sorry that you appear to have not enjoyed your time here.

Dave

[Kit Gerhart]

Even if there were room for the fields, adequate officials, etc., having 6 divisions would not work because it would require giving byes into the semis on Einstein. I think most of us feel that this would not be a good thing.

Originally Posted by vadyr

Thirdly, the divisions are too large. Having more divisions (i.e. six divisions) would lessen the amount of teams in each division and allow each team to participate in more matches. Scouting would be more manageable for less experienced teams. This year, there were six or seven regionals occurring simultaneously each week. Next year there will be 41 regionals in five weeks, averaging to over 8 fields a week. At least one week will require 9 fields. Thus, FIRST will have enough fields for each of the 6 divisions, two practice fields, and the Einstein field.


Sincerely,

Nate Thomas
President

Corey Koenig
President, Treasurer

Bobby Trotta
Vice President, Driver

[BiTurboS4]

First and foremost, as i've said many many times over, the use of the term NATIONALS needs to go. It is quite disrespectful to international teams that compete at the championship. Granted their are many that were around when it was still being called the nationals. But it remains that their are a staggering amount of people who weren't around during that time, thus have no reason to be using that term to describe the event.

Second. After standing for a few minutes watching a ranking screen, I was bombarded by the girls in the bright green vests screaming robot coming through. Now thats fine, and I can understand if your coming through a narrow walk way, but their is NO need to try to push your way through a group of about 20 people looking at a display. Their was plenty of room on either side of the group, and it should be used for robot traffic.

Third. The thought of having more divisions thus requiring more fields on the dome floor is probably never going to happen. Their is simply not enough room at the ends of the football field to fit one in correctly, and still allow the audio to get to the correct people. The only way I can think of to make it happen, were if FVC and FLL were to move to another venue or happen prior to the FRC event starting, thus freeing up the needed space on Einstein and DaVinci.

Fourth. The complaint about the walking distance is hard for me to understand, having been to Epcot, the walking distance was minimal. Though by far the worst was in fact Houston, the walk from the pits in Atlanta pales in comparison to the walk in Houston.

As i've said before, the best way to voice your complaints is to email frcteams@usfirst.org if you'd like your complaints to be considered by the FIRST staff.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by vadyr

Thirdly, the divisions are too large. Having more divisions (i.e. six divisions) would lessen the amount of teams in each division and allow each team to participate in more matches. Scouting would be more manageable for less experienced teams. This year, there were six or seven regionals occurring simultaneously each week. Next year there will be 41 regionals in five weeks, averaging to over 8 fields a week. At least one week will require 9 fields. Thus, FIRST will have enough fields for each of the 6 divisions, two practice fields, and the Einstein field.

As I understand it, from talking to the IFI folks the issue with having more fields isn't not having enough fields available--it's not having enough radio channels to prevent interference.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by BiTurboS4

...the use of the term NATIONALS needs to go.

I agree completely. Apparently someone in a "position of power" does not, however. The recording being played at the entrance to the Dome continuously welcomed everyone to "the 2007 FIRST National Championship".

[BiTurboS4]

Originally Posted by Cory

As I understand it, from talking to the IFI folks the issue with having more fields isn't not having enough fields available--it's not having enough radio channels to prevent interference.

If we made the jump to 2.4ghz or 5Ghz, that problem would be solved.

[Phil Ross]

I think the Pits need to be closer to the playing field.

it was really easy to loose track of time and miss a match because of the 15 minute walk.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by dangerousdave

I have no doubt that the crimes you mentioned occurred and they are regretable. I am very happy that as far as I know, there were not any First teams directly involved in any of them. You appear to be from somewhere in PA so can I assume that you have been to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? Do you not think that the crime is not the same or worse there or in any other large metropolitan city which is necessary to hold an event this size? Yes it was terrible that what you mentioned happened but I believe you will unfortunately see that in any large city.

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/safety.htm

We all know the Championship won't move to Toronto anytime soon. But assuming that Atlanta's crime rate is typical for a large metropolitan city may be a bit excessive.

As for some weak anecdotal evidence, I always felt safe at EPCOT.

[GRaduns340]

I really wasn't at all upset with the walk. As much as we joked and groaned about soar legs - and they did hurt - the venue is nice, and it could be an awful lot worse somewhere else.

If there is one complaint I have it's that as a member of the drive team for 340, and not having long to eat lunch, I only had a real lunch one day of the three days of competition. The lines were so long and slow that by the time I made it back from a match or talking with other drive teams I didn't have time to get a lunch before our next match. I don't know how that could be fixed, but I like my food, and not having it bothered me a little.

[dangerousdave]

Originally Posted by Karthik

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/safety.htm
We all know the Championship won't move to Toronto anytime soon. But assuming that Atlanta's crime rate is typical for a large metropolitan city may be a bit excessive.

Karthik, I will agree with your overall statement and would amend my post to "United States city" if I was still allowed to edit it. The table you provided has some very favorable statistics toward Toronto. Thank you for making that point.

Having been to Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton & Vancouver I can agree they are beautiful and overall safer than similar per capita cities in the USA. I would be extremely happy to go to the Championship event in Toronto. For reasons (weather, passports etc.) detailed in other threads here that might not happen anytime soon.

It is very difficult to find very current statistics on crime however I found an older one that mentions muggings, car thefts and assaults which are not shown in the table you provided. That article shows Toronto has more of those crimes per capita than NYC.

Again, overall there is no doubt that your typical large Canadian city has a lower overall violent crime rate per capita than a similar USA city. Canada is a beautiful and safe country and I jump at the chance to travel there.

Originally Posted by Bongle

I was showing how the lack of confetti might not be a negative thing. Otherwise you'd have a 2006 negatives thread where I posted about how the confetti balloons were annoying, followed by a 2007 negatives thread where someone said they wished there was confetti. Poor FIRST would be all confused.

Bongle, Sorry I misunderstood your post.

Originally Posted by Bongle

...which reminds me: It would be really nice to have the match schedules posted in such a way that we don't have to pester poor dangerousdave all friday to get our team's schedule. If you're going to have a webcast, the schedules should be online.

Hey, I did not feel pestered. If I didn't want to help I didn't have to. I imagined if I was stuck at home how would I feel? Sorry I couldn't help more. It was difficult fighting for position when they posted the 2 sets of papers showing each fields matches. Thankfully someone soon posted all of the matches on CD. Dave
Dave

[tyron256]

Originally Posted by Zyik

-moved from other thread-

I vote for more dancing. Honestly, watching that webcast, we need to dance more. The people in the stands dancing looked to be obsurcing veiws as well, not that this was a big deal as they looked to only standup at the breaks.

Ok in all honestly I do meen that, at SVR and Davis there were areas for dancing team-members, there should be one per divison at championships to. However, space in the dome makes this unlikely, but dancing allows the teams that arn't on the feild to still participate, move around, jump up and down, etc. allows them to keep the adrenaline going. I think that if this was in place, the crowd might be even more responsive. *shrug* just my two bits. I don't even know if non-crazy-california regionals have alot of dancing.

I definately agree with this one. i believe that it is part of FIRST that keeps the energy up when everyone is jet lagged. essentially, it shows team spirit and makes things more fun.