Solution for uniform ramming penalty calls

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by InfernoX14

Refs tend to catch high speed ramming when it happens.

I would see this device as an advantage. As a defense robot, the refs would be especially looking out for our bot during matches (after they got to know us and our bot and our driving style (BTW I'm talking about regionals))... They would claim that if we started 10 ft. away from a robot, and hit it without stopping in between, this was a penalty. The team's argument was that the bot was in no way going full speed. It is a major time problem to go, stop, go, reverse, wait, go, stop, etc.... just to block a team from scoring and not get a ramming penalty. If you must be within 3 (or 5 or something like that) ft. to hit another bot, but must be more than 3 ft. away after 10 seconds, this means a lot of starting and stopping. The light would help us in the sense that it could prove that we aren't hitting at full speed, and are simply blocking at a speed that is non-damaging. I don't think that any damage was done to ANY bot that we got a penalty for 'ramming' against.

Just a thought. So I say 'yay' to the sensor. As far as implementation, I see built-in to the RC as the most viable. This way, it will force teams to more securely mount their RC, at least if they want the hope of getting a ramming call awarded against the opposing alliance. Then, if a ref sees a situation that they would like to call ramming, they need a thumbs up from the IFI guy saying that the accelerometer limit was breached on the victim bot (remember, the opposing 'defense' bot may have the opportunity to not have the RC securely fastened. I think that the victim bot needs to have complained about being hit.) Using this system, you really could set a threshold as to what is 'too hard. This doesn't rely on speed or distance or anything else that may be subject to quick calculations by the ref. It is based on pure hitting force, which is what this rule is intended to defend against (no pun intended).

So I guess what I'm saying is that this device would not necessarily catch cases where ramming occurs that the ref may not see, its more to defend the defense robots against unnecessary calls.

My 98 cents short of a dollar.
Jacob

[kramarczyk]

We've discussed implementing an anti-ram circuit on our bot using IR, ultrasonic, or another 'proximity' sensor to monitor the closure rate and just preventing our bot from being able to committing them. Prevention instead of detection. The big problem we had was coming up with the metrics to define high speed ramming, but I hear that IRI uses > 8ft/s for more than 2 bot lengths. It doesn't help you argue if someone rams you, but it simplifies one more thing for the driver that can get you into trouble.

<sucking up>
The planning committee for IRI really seems to be quite wise with a solid ramming definition like this. Hey, haven't they been using a yellow/red card system for a few years? What other wisdom (i.e. awesomeness) do they have to share with us this year? I hope I get to find out.
</sucking up>

Mark

[billbo911]

My thoughts on this are a bit different. Robot to robot contact is something that can't be avoided, even alliance partners smack each other on occasion.

What about a game/games that completely eliminate physical defense between opposing alliances. All defense would have to be strategic and/or tactical in nature. Games that would require a lot more intra alliance cooperation and interaction.

With everything the GDC already has to do to make these games as awesome as they already are, this would be a HUGE redirection. One that would not make their work any easier.

Just some food for thought.

[meaubry]

Just a thought ...

Why not just limit the top end speed a robot can go?
Robot interaction is gonna occur, that is for certain.

And, detection methods are okay, but prevention is even better.

I don't know what the limit should be, but surely some smart person could come up with a way to use accelerometers in conjunction with the speed controller on the drive wheel motors, to set a high end limit.

I know that we can't really equate power with speed, but I think it would be something that could be looked at.


Sorry if this has already been suggested - I didn't read all of the posts (my bad)

Mike Aubry

[AdamHeard]

If they could somehow use a sensor, that without any interaction of the mechanical or drive parts, could report the robots speed to the refs, that would be an ideal system.

So, if ramming is considered 10fps or greater, and you hit at 9 you're fine.

A light could go on when you are "speeding" so the refs know when to call it.