Standing Up During Competition...

[Beth Sweet]

Personally, our team compiles scouting databases at competitions. We scout every team, every match and make that information available to every team. If your team intends to stand through the match for every match out there, it would be polite to the other teams if you would sit near the back. Just because your team is on the field doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't get to see that match.

I love the way that Wildstand does it. Team spirt is evident, but they still take into consideration that everyone in the stands behind them wants to see the match as well. If your team does something surprising, obviously you're going to stand up. I don't think people would yell for that. But if a team stands up the whole match every match they're out there, I do ask them to sit down and remind them that they are blocking the view of every single person sitting behind them. So if you plan to stand every match you're out, please sit near the back so that the rest of the people at the competition can see too!

[coreyk]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

If your team intends to stand through the match for every match out there, it would be polite to the other teams if you would sit near the back.

I am not sure that I agree with your solution. It is unfair to tell teams that they must sit in the back (and have a poor view) simply because they wish to stand for a couple of minutes and show support for their team - especially since the majority of teams do stand. Vikesrock mentioned that seating could be reserved for teams that do stand - but it would probably be more beneficial to provide it for those who wish to remain seated.

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

I think part of this problem stems from the growth of FIRST and the growing number of "spectators" attending events. These spectators may not realize how much work went into building these robots and that the crazy environment is part of what makes FIRST special.

I'm not sure that spectators are the main problem - for I have only heard requests for individuals to sit down on a team-to-team basis. Also, most spectators attend the event on Saturday where standing is not as prevalent (most teams do not make it into the finals, etc.). With this being said, visitors need to be informed of the “crazy environment” so that FIRST remains special for all of its participants.

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

At a football game people can stand and cheer when a great play happens or at the beginning of a game, but standing through the whole game is typically discouraged.

I do not feel that these two events are correlated. A robotics match is only a few minutes whereas a football game is a few hours.

[Ben Martin]

I must admit, I'm guilty of standing up some to cheer for our robot. At regionals, we might stand for a whole match, especially during the elimination rounds. At nationals, however, we usually keep to our seats (except for when our team name is announced). I've been asked a few times to sit down because I'm so excited about one score or another.

However, it's not nice to block anyone's view during the events (it makes it difficult to scout matches). It is important that we cheer for our respective teams, but we have to keep the view of the field open. Everyone enjoys the event more a little more if they can see what's going on, especially if they see a match-changing performance.

[AmyPrib]

Here's another way to think of it....

If you stand during your whole match, that's a potential large group of teams behind you that can't see your robot perform. And that means they may not realize how good you are in the event they get to pick in alliance selections.. this is especially important for those stealth underdogs who are amazing but aren't of a well-known name or are suddenly much better than they were at a prior event....it's related to scouting, but there are many other team members in the stands that contribute to scouting discussions when the time comes..... just a different thought.

[Cptn Patches537]

Team 537 stands for every match we are in, from when we are announced to the end of the match, and if it was exciting until the final score is posted. I understand the complaints of those behind us, as does our team, but it is simply a tradition, and providing that a FIRST official doesnt tell us to sit down, we will continue standing. We had 1 complaint about this in ohio, and the problem was worked out for one of us to move so all could see. In atlanta, however, with seating much more valuable, we had 2 complaints about our standing. The first came from a team who was in the same match as us, but still refused to stand up to watch...wouldnt you stand to support your team if you couldnt see...we even invited them to cheer with us, but they just sat as their mentor argued with ours. By the time they had finished the match was over, and to make matters worse on their side, they had lost. The other time was from a few individuals from another team sitting behind us.
Were sorry and you may definitely cheer with us, but, as mentioned, the field is hard to see when sitting down and we want to catch all the action. We would be standing in excitement even if we were sitting. The team in front of us also stood, and so we positioned our scouters to acommodate for the problem. With a little problem solving and compromise, things are alright and everyone can stand when they want to.
-Eric

[vivek16]

team 2264 didnt have that problem. we only had 4 students at the regional and all of them got to be on the field

[Cartwright]

As one of the people that lead scouting for 234, it does bother me a little when people stand. It makes it hard to see the matches, especially which robot scores where. I am fine with standing in an exciting moment though! Everbody should be able to show their team pride when they score a whole spider or lift two robots 12".

[KarenH]

Most of the posts supporting standing during matches seem to ignore the fact that there are some people who really cannot stand up. I was shocked to read about the faculty at Purdue suggesting that the older “Boosters” stay home. If such a suggestion were EVER made to me by the higher-ups of an organization, I’d stay home all right—along with my “Booster” dollars. Any organization that treats its supporters with such gross disrespect doesn’t deserve any support.

Opinions aside, here are some facts:
--Many people can not stand up each time there is a match. They may be very old, they may be infirm, or they may temporarily be on crutches with a broken leg. At FIRST events, such people went to a lot of effort to travel to the event to watch it. At the Georgia Dome in particular, the size of the place will be daunting to such people. They will expend a good part of their strength just getting to their seats.

--People with physical infirmities often can’t help being that way.

--Even if you are healthy and fit today, you, too, may one day become infirm and weak.

--Years ago, the federal government enacted legislation commonly known as the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). One effect of this legislation was to counteract the idea that it is OK for society to ignore people with disabilities, telling them to just stay home, don’t work, don’t travel, don’t go out, they’re not worth any extra consideration. A person with a physical infirmity already has difficulties way beyond what a healthy person experiences. He or she doesn’t need others putting additional obstacles in the way.

--Unlike many of the aging venues in which FIRST competitions are held, the Georgia Dome was built after the ADA was in place. In the stands, the steps are at a shallow angle and handrails are provided to make it easier (and safer) for everyone to move about. (This also makes it harder to see the playing field when people in front are standing up.) Ramps and elevators are logically and conspicuously placed.

--Dean Kamen, founder of FIRST, has shown special concern for the disabled by inventing a wheelchair that can climb stairs. Its favorite feature for users: the ability to put them at eye level with others who are standing up.

--Dean Kamen’s parents, who are getting on in years, are staunch supporters of FIRST, and attend the Championship every year, despite their age.

Now I have some questions:
--Some teams have a “tradition” of standing for every match. Many teams do not. Is your team going to continue its tradition, even if it causes problems for other people? What if Dean Kamen's parents were sitting behind you, and didn't want to stand up? What if your team's top sponsor were sitting behind you, and unable to stand up?

--People can have their experience at an event marred by others’ inconsideration. But who will be hurt if your team sits down for most of its matches? (Yes, I know, if things really get exciting the emotions will take over. That’s OK—sometimes.)

--The most basic rule in FIRST is called “gracious professionalism.” If your team habitually offends other people, is your team being gracious?

[santosh]

We had that problem out of state. We didn't ever have a problem with it at peachtree but have had it occasionally at vcu and once at boilermaker in 05. Infact during peachtree, we stood throughout the entire playoffs. Since then, we have compromised and moved towards the back of the stands so we didn't annoy people that had problems with it at other regionals/champs.
I think that you should have the right to support your team during their matches. If the people want to scout that bad, they should either stand up or find another place for a short 2:15. There are only like 7 opportunities for the rest of the team to show their support for the robot, and most everyone wants to take advantage of it by standing up and going crazy for the bot.
Generally, when a team stands up in front of us, we stand up right behind them to see the match and cheer them on.
I would rather be up closer but since it doesn't sit well with some, we don't...

[Dinger]

Our team always stands when we are haveing a match. usually this is no problem. we often tell the teams behind us that we will stand durring our match, and when it is over we will sit again. This usually calms some nerves. If we end up standing in front of scouters, and they point this out to us (usually by frenzied yelling of "gah, can you sit? i gotta scout this!"), we move close togeather to give the scouters a line of vision.

We have been on the reciveing end also, were the team in front of us stands and blocks our veiw (and most importantly the veiw of our scouters). But is this a fiasco? no. the scouters sit at the end of a row so that they have more room to move thier heads around to get the best veiw of the feild. If the team in front of us seems to be taking up way more space than they need to, or if somones mascot is in our way (happened at nationals) we have one person politely ask them if they could move slightly so that we can scout. Never once has anyone said no to me when i have asked them to make a small accomedation.

It seems to me that the only time it becomes a big deal is if someone makes it one. we ran into this at nationals when someone came up to one of our mentors and asked her if she was familiar with the "no standing rule" at all events. she politly responded that she was unfamiliar with this rule and that if it was pointed out to her in offical documentation she would happily comply. we did not ever get a chance to see that rule pointed out to us...
It seems to me that the bigger a deal people make out of the standing (as in the bigger the fit they have) the less likely it is for teams to want to be compliant. And throwing a fit doesnt seem very FIRSTy to me. What i have found is that if the two parties (the standers and the sitters behind them) have a polite exchange, there is rarely a time where a solution cannot be worked out.

[BHS_STopping]

In my opinion, I don't think it's very polite to stand during a match. It makes it difficult for scouts to see the field and see how good some robots are. Standing can sometimes rob the other robots on the field the chance to be noticed and be picked during alliance selections. Think of it this way: Team A goes into a match. Their robot is working very well, but has not yet had a chance to show its scoring ability. Team B goes into the same match along with Team A. Team B's member's stand up during the match to cheer and show spirit. Team C, which is in the stands scouting behind Team B, is seeded very high and will probably be selecting an alliance for the elimination matches. Team A compliments Team C very well, but Team C is not able to see how good they really are because their view is obstructed by Team B's members standing up.

Although it might not affect your team very much if you stand, you might very well affect 5 other teams in the process. There are plenty of ways to show team spirit without standing up in front of other teams. Remember, during a football game, people don't have to look down as far to see the action. During FRC, the fields are much closer to the base of the stands, making it very problematic if even a small obstacle is in front of you.

[coreyk]

Originally Posted by BHS_STopping

In my opinion, I don't think it's very polite to stand during a match. It makes it difficult for scouts to see the field and see how good some robots are. Standing can sometimes rob the other robots on the field the chance to be noticed and be picked during alliance selections.

As a FIRST participant for four years, It is difficult for me to believe that an individual (unless a scout) watches every match. As previously mentioned - the competition is a sporting event...and as in any sports related activity, fans stand to support their team – especially when something exciting happens. If you parallel this to a robotics competition, teams stand when excited. For some teams this may only be for a few seconds - however, for most it may be the entire match. At the Championship event, there are countless areas where scouts could relocate for better visibility.

Standing in moments of excitement is limitless in the real world. For example, in Congress when a speaker makes a moving speech, members stand. When the President makes a favorable point, individuals stand. At a football game, after a player makes a touchdown, fans stand (sometimes for minutes). Do you think that an individual sitting behind someone who is standing requests that the individual sit down?.....No.

Originally Posted by BHS_STopping

There are plenty of ways to show team spirit without standing up in front of other teams.

Please provide examples. The only thing that I can think of is cheering...waving flags or other items would probably be labeled as "ungracious” as well.

[technoL]

At the Championship event, there are countless areas where scouts could relocate for better visibility.

This is very untrue. This year we tried to be very dedicated to scouting and changed our location every day in search of a better view. The first day we had prime seats, almost bottom and center, but unfortunately we couldn't get those seats any other day. Otherwise, we were at the top, with the hopes of being able to see over everyone else (again, doesn't quite work at the Championship), and on Saturday, we were almost off of the field and at the top, running into the same situation. Some may not realize that if you are scouting with a laptop, you cannot stand up to look over those standing in front of you, when it is difficult to see even when they are sitting.

In the end, a team shouldn't have to go through extremes to try to see a match. Other teams should be courteous enough to realize that there are people behind them, and with only 6 or 7 matches, EVERY single match is vital to collect worthy scouting data.

Apparently, most have taken sides on this issue and a few have become offended by pleas to remain seated during the match. Again, I look at it like this, what difference does it make if you are standing and cheering during the whole match? Have you ever tried sitting and cheering during the match? Do you feel as if you are less spirited, or as if there is a loss of enthusiasm? If you didn't get a chance to stand, would you have gone "Oh man, if I was standing I would have been so much more spirited to my team and I guess I am going to have to sit and mope now!" I doubt it. A new twist to FIRST: a lesson in self-control to deal with. Try sitting and cheering for a few matches, just for the sake of everyone behind you.

How about this, if there was an actual rule about it, would you still stand and cheer? Probably not. You would think of better ways to show spirit according to the new ruling. Just because someone doesn't tell you to play in traffic doesn't mean that you should.

Hopefully FIRST will officially address this by next year with a fair solution. I'm sure we have better things to discuss than common courtesy.

-No L

[coreyk]

I see that you are extremely passionate about this topic, and I am not going to argue with the points that you have made. Although, I disagree with your comments, responding to each of them would be repetitive. With this being said, I am sorry that your team was unable to obtain optimal seating and as a result, were unable to collect the scouting information that you desired.

As far as a ruling - I feel that standing should be allowed because it contributes to the energy of the competition. Spirit (as it pertains to standing) has been an integral part of FIRST, as it visually depicts student and mentor enthusiasm. Although, cheering while sitting contributes to the audio…it lacks any evidence of visual excitement.

[234smidget]

Last year we traveled to Phoenix, Arizona and i believe they had the best area for your team to stand and cheer.

This year it has changed and it is hard to not be in the way of other teams.

Cyberblue stood up while being announced then sat down to do scouting of other teams and when we scored we cheered. Also if you know your team is a cheering type of team then when looking for seats try to get in a area where you won't bother the teams that sit.

As someone said up at top, stand in the cheering area near the playing field but that is hard to do if you visits competition sites that do not allow you to stand a foot away from the field.

See I am lucky, i did video during competition and i stood up during our matches to tap but had no problem with complaints but then again I probably didn't make a difference since I'm only 4'8..

I have no solution to solving this standing problem unless you sit by a team that does not care to seeing the field but that would be one in a bagillion chance