Standing Up During Competition...

[zc923]

I've seen some ridiculous stuff go on at FIRST events with regards to seating.

I've seen people throw stuff to get the attention of people standing up 5 or 6 rows down so they sit down and the people behind them can see.

I've seen people who would rather walk through a seating isle with seated people then walk all the way up, and then get to their destination.

However, as far as standing up at a competition goes, I feel that it should be done at the discretion of the team. If you happen to be the at the back of the section and no other team behind you, stand up all you want. However, if you are in the middle of the section, perhaps standing throughout the entire 2 minutes is not such a good idea.

In recent events, team 1403 stands up to cheer during team introductions, but sits down before the match starts, allowing our neighboring FIRST teams to also view the match.

As far as scouting, 1403 does scout every match, but usually, our scouters are located in other locations, may it be on the top of the section, or a bit more off to the side. This way, they can get their job done without being disturbed by cheering teams.

I do not think FIRST should make a ruling about stand behavior. I feel the members of the FIRST community are mature and gracious enough to consider the best course of action depending on their situation. I only advise that teams and individuals in the future practice discretion.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by zc923

I do not think FIRST should make a ruling about stand behavior. I feel the members of the FIRST community are mature and gracious enough to consider the best course of action depending on their situation. I only advise that teams and individuals in the future practice discretion.

That's the way it should be. Unfortunately, we've seen too many responses in this thread alone along the lines of, "Well, we stand up and if you don't like it, you can lump it." OK, no one used those exact ungracious words, but you can see the attitude.

Folks, just like anything else going on with the game/event/venue, if we don't fix it ourselves, someone is going to step in to fix it for us. Let's be gracious professionals and curb our own desires and behaviors before FIRST is forced to make a new rule. Providing "standing sections" comes to mind, but there would still be complaints about that - I can see people complaining that either the standing section or the seated section placement is less than optimal.

I have no problem with teams standing to cheer for their introduction. Nor do I have a problem with everyone standing up when something incredibly exciting happens on the field - that happened on Einstein this year, and it happens in sporting events all over the world. You stand up when the quarterback throws the Hail Mary pass. But you don't stand through the whole game. Yes, I know 3 hours is different than 3 minutes, but the concept applies.

[kborer22]

everyone has spent a greuling 6 weeks building their robot, not to mention the time put in in the pre and post season, i see no reason why you cant stand to cheer your team. 125 has always stood to cheer on the team, and when i was on MORT it was the same way. Now 125 is considerably smaller(25-30) compared to MORT'S (70+), but either way i feel like you have the right to stand and cheer on your team. It's only 3 min at most every 45 min or so, i really dont think its that big of a deal. It is a choice every team has to make, but the teams that choose to not stand should not try and force their hand, they should not (attempt) make the teams that want to stand sit......

[Don Wright]

Originally Posted by kborer22

It is a choice every team has to make, but the teams that choose to not stand should not try and force their hand, they should not (attempt) make the teams that want to stand sit......

Except that me sitting doesn't affect you. You standing affects me and the other people behind you. So I WILL attempt to ask you to sit during matches, and will even discuss it with your mentors and coaches. And if you still refuse to sit and block everyone behind you because you think that standing and cheering means more than sitting and cheering, then I, and I am sure a lot of people behind you, will consider you to be a rude and inconsiderate team.

[coreyk]

Imagine entering the seating area at a Regional competition. No one is standing...there is little activity (expect for random cheering)...and everyone appears bored and uninterested.

This is how the event would appear if teams were not standing, dancing, and exhibiting noticeable spirit - for some think that this is "not gracious, unprofessional, and inconsiderate."

How is a team expected to obtain sponsors - when they see little enthusiasm in students and a lack of energy when traveling to the events? Standing and cheering for ones team is part of the FIRST experience and should remain.

[Don Wright]

Why do people keep equating to sitting in your seat during a match to boring and unexcited?!

Cheer, scream, do whatever...but why stand up and block people?

And, between matches, during dances, all other times, do whatever you want.

All we[i] are[am] asking is that during the actual time that gameplay is taking place on the field when everyone should be looking at the field anyway, be considerate and sit down so that people behind you can see without standing up.

That's it.

[MOE]

HELLOOooo
We at Team 88 TJ2 have been standing for 12 years. I dont see the problem. Did anyone ever go to the PATS, RED SOX or B's games and sit?????? Hope we can still stand when we are up . We had a super time in GA. We will see some of you at the off season events in the North East.
Congratulations to TEAMS 190, 177, AND 987 from NEWTON and also TEAMS 233, 71 AND 179 for the great matches in the finals, see all sooooon.
TEAM 88 TJ2 and MOE

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by kborer22

It's only 3 min at most every 45 min or so, i really dont think its that big of a deal. .....

Maybe at championships that's the case, but for regionals especially this year, where it was quite common to have 9-12 matches per team, it could be every 15minutes or less. And think about it, at regionals, if the majority of teams stood during their matches (with 6 at a time), there could be people sitting in places such that they'd end having to stand almost the entire day if they want to see the any match at all. i.e. In the first match, team A, B, C is standing, and they happen to be in front of me to the left, blocking my view. In the second match, team D, E, F is standing, and they happen to be in front of me also somewhere, and so on.... So when people say "it's only 3min you have to stand", that's assuming you're the only team that's blocking their view the entire day.......

Just something else to consider....

ps. When I looked around in GA, I would say the teams that stood during their entire match were in the minority. Many of them stood before/after. The place was just as hoppin'.

[Don Wright]

Just because you've been doing it for 12 years, doesn't make it right.

And yes, I've been to Lions, Tigers, Pistons, and Red Wings games. And, yes, for most of the time, I am considerate and sit so that the people behind me can see. Sure, as someone mentioned, if something really exciting happens, then I expect people to stand and cheer/boo for a second, but for the most part, people are sitting.

I've said my piece. I think it's rude and inconsiderate to stand for your entire match. Do as you wish, but think about what you do.

And past history really doesn't condone any actions. If we never changed anything because "that's the way it's always been done", then we would never progress as a society. In FIRST or otherwise...

[AlexTHristov]

Originally Posted by coreyk

How is a team expected to obtain sponsors - when they see little enthusiasm in students and a lack of energy when traveling to the events? Standing and cheering for ones team is part of the FIRST experience and should remain.

I think that this statement is quite misleading, if not false. From personal experience with one standing team at the Chesapeake Regional last year, standing (when repeatedly asked politely to sit down) can be seen by some sponsors as rude and inconsiderate. So standing can also hurt a team trying to get sponsors.

That said, REX was standing a great deal at Chesapeake this year, so I am not saying don't do it. Fortunately, we didn't get any complaints (that I know of) so I assume it was acceptable to others (probably due to the arrangement of the bleachers in the USNA).

My only opinion is that teams should be flexible in following GP: consider those around you and never impose your attitudes on the issue.

[Taylor]

FIRST events cannot truly be equated with sporting events because at sporting events (especially college) there are designated sections. Of course I would expect to stand in the student section, and mostly sit in the alumni/family section at a Purdue football or basketball game. There are understood, defined areas for such behavior.

However, there are (usually) only two teams at sporting events, and the area each cheering section takes can be rather spread out to allow for standing/sitting sections. At FIRST competitions, there are dozens of teams represented, and the audience is segmented by team affiliation rather than by cheering style.

In my eyes, the people most affected were those unable to stand. We want our grandmas to be proud, but then we stand in front of them and block their view. We want to share our excitement with our siblings, but there's no way a 10-year-old can see over a standing high schooler. We want to videotape the matches, but end up with footage of the back of people's heads. My wife was enjoying her Arni's personal pizza, but pizza's not really a stand-and-eat-it type of food, and you can imagine the view from that perspective.

FIRST was created in part to destroy common perceptions - nerds can't have fun, technology is boring, science and math have no real value, high schoolers are obnoxious and ill-mannered. Rudeness has no place in the world, and certainly not at a FIRST event.

Standing shows spirit, shows enthusiasm, shows support. But please be aware of your surroundings. The person whose view you are blocking may be a future alliance partner, an ailing grandparent, or a potential sponsor.

[Tom Line]

Karen,

I would never suggest that we should not show respect towards other people. However, I think that sort of thing goes both ways. Respect the students right to support their robot. First is about the students. Inspiring them. Telling them to sit down (*just my opinion, and no offense meant*) is neither supportive nor inspiring. While we love to have non-students attend the events and get excited, I think they need to realize this is about the students and the teams.

I have heard people (and I'll admit some on my team) complaining about teams that do team shouts - like the spirit shout (boy was that cool at Western Michigan - I've got Spirit, HOW BOUT YOU!) etc. I pointed out to them that if it's making you notice that other team, then it's working. If it's getting them pumped up, it's working. If it's adding to the generally insane atmosphere at the event, then it's working.

Perhaps a happy medium can be reached. Perhaps someone who has the concern with the people standing can request that First reserve the front row at regionals and nationals for 1 or 2 scouts per team and those who attend that may have trouble navigating the stands or standing up. It may not be ideal because they aren't with their team, but I think it would be much better than telling the teams to sit down.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Don Wright

Except that me sitting doesn't affect you. You standing affects me and the other people behind you. So I WILL attempt to ask you to sit during matches, and will even discuss it with your mentors and coaches.

kborer22 is a mentor of 125, so you can go ahead and discuss it directly with him.



MILESTONE: 500th post

[Faith]

I know standing for your team the entire match is fun.
I know how annoying it is to have someone in front of you stand the entire match.

But depending on which side you are placed on and what the vendor is like, everything changes. I know that at regionals (at least in hockey rinks), the stands are steeper and when you stand it often only blocks a couple of people/rows. Hockey rinks often have different sections as well, so you may be standing and there is no one behind you to block. Also, at the regionals I've been to their is normally a standing area for teams that are playing.
All this makes it a lot easier to stand without disrupting someone else's view.

At championships, the angle is not steep (at all). I had trouble seeing the field over the heads of people sitting down sometimes, and when people in front of me stood up it totally destroyed my view. More people are likely to be there randomly/to see their (grand)child's robot/to see the team they are sponsoring that made it that far. (ex., my grandparents and my parents were there!) There is NO special standing area for teams who are playing.
It is really easy to prevent a lot of people from seeing anything by standing up.

Both of these situations are at FIRST competitions, but they are totally different. Teams should adapt to each competition (in my opinion).

Also, remember that depending on the situation, although you may only stand for 3 minutes per hour, other teams are standing during the other time and may be disrupting the same people.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

I've already stated that 648 prefers to stand up, but we don't always. ESPECIALLY if there's been a complaint or two, we don't get many though. (Infectious spirit, maybe?) That's where I'm staying. I've never had to ask a team to sit down before, but then again, I'm a very patient person.

WARNING: the following may not belong here.

Somewhat along these lines, but off-topic just a tad, I get really annoyed with the people that sit in the aisles designated for team travel between the stands and pits. ESPECIALLY at the hockey arenas, such as UIC Pavilion, where one small slip could end up meaning a broken ankle/leg in that space between the hockey wall and that final, bottom row. As happened in 2005, at StL. There were several teams that sat in high traffic areas in Chicago this year.


Just a bit of insight,

Jeremiah