WOW-- Did I miss something?

[SamC]

Does anyone have video of this match? I would really like to see exactly what happened (I was watching my team, then heard cries from across the aisle
[71 & 233 was sitting there] and then saw 71 on its back). The video on the blue alliance shows them, then shows them on the ground and skips the whole falling over part.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

I too wondered about this. I didn't have the best view and it all happened way too quick, but to me it looked like 1270 was at least a robot's length away when Hammond fell. Its not something that needs a huge argument or discussion about...what's done is done...but it'd be nice to understand what really did happen.

Kev

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej

I too wondered about this. I didn't have the best view and it all happened way too quick, but to me it looked like 1270 was at least a robot's length away when Hammond fell. Its not something that needs a huge argument or discussion about...what's done is done...but it'd be nice to understand what really did happen.

Kev

I was down on the field as human player but I didn't even see what happened on this one. I think what it was is that 1270 did push them over but it was accidental. The reason it was called as harshly as it was was a lack of bumpers. If 1270 had bumpers it probaly wouldn't have been red card worthy, but I honestly don't know.
But to echo what Kevin is saying, please don't make this bigger then it has to be. What's done is done, and now it's time to focus on the post season.

[FIXIT]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I was down on the field as human player but I didn't even see what happened on this one. I think what it was is that 1270 did push them over but it was accidental. The reason it was called as harshly as it was was a lack of bumpers. If 1270 had bumpers it probaly wouldn't have been red card worthy, but I honestly don't know.
But to echo what Kevin is saying, please don't make this bigger then it has to be. What's done is done, and now it's time to focus on the post season.

I don’t think bumpers played a role. The 1270 robot is only 4½ in. off the ground. The Beast seems quite a bit higher and top heavy. What I heard from those on the floor is that the Beast drove up onto the Red Dragon and was flipped over as the Red Dragon drove forward to hang the ringer. I would still like to see some video just to make sure.

I agree, we should not make a big deal of this--even if it cost 330, 910, and 1270 a run at the world championship. It’s only a game. By the way, does anyone have the name of the official that made the call?

[David Brinza]

I watched the match from the stands and thought I saw both robots with ringers trying to score the same spider on the scorer's side of the field. The next thing I saw was 71 flipping backwards and the 1270 robot backing away with the ringer still in its gripper. The head ref immediately ran over to the red alliance station and disabled 1270.

When I got home, I watched the match again (I had recorded NASA TV's broadcast), but during the critical moment, the TV coverage was showing 330 and 179 battling on the crowd side of the rack. The next view had 71 already on the ground and the ref heading towards the red alliance station. Given the head ref's decisive action, he must have felt that 1270 had intentionally tipped 71.

After the very rough play I had just witnessed on Curie, I was somewhat surprised to see the red card flashed on 1270. The message here is that different referees will have different levels of tolerance for aggressive play. After 13-14 matches with a referee crew that "just let's them play", a less tolerant referee can catch you off guard.

It's a hard thing to swallow, but the ref's have a very difficult job and are doing their best to enforce the rules.

P.S. I had posted this a few days ago in the "Einstein?" thread, but it was rather off-topic there. Sorry for the "re-run"...

[Arefin Bari]

Facts:

1) Team 71 and Team 1270, both were carrying a tube and they were both going for one of the middle spiders on the side of the rack.

2) It seemed like team 71's robot needed a little work on CG, because after interaction with 1270's bot it started rocking back and forth (only rocked probably twice).

3) 1270 drove forward while BEAST was rocking back and forth; the BEAST fell on it's back.

I was impressed with both robots and the fight they put up in their own division and on Einstein. Congratulations.

[eugenebrooks]

It happened fast, but it did appear that 1270 went under the robot that got flipped over before it backed away. I am not one to spend much time on the issue of who did what when one robot ends up under another robot. It would have been hard for the referree to interpret it as anything but intentional tipping. People sitting with me saw it similarly.

I think that the lack of bumpers on 1270 was a factor. If 1270 had used standard bumpers it would not have gone under the robot that fell over and I think that the outcome of the interaction (at least the penalty, but likely the win) would have been different. A top heavy robot might have still fallen over, but the referee would have seen the situation differently.

The lesson I take away here is that putting standard bumpers on a robot is a really good idea, but then this is a lesson that I see played at every regional event, every year.

Eugene

[FIXIT]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

It happened fast, but it did appear that 1270 went under the robot that got flipped over before it backed away...

I think that the lack of bumpers on 1270 was a factor...

Eugene

I agree that the Red Dragon was under the Beast. That is why I am still puzzled by the call. It should have been the Beast penalized 10 pts for being outside the bumper zone as stated in rule “G35”. When a robot drives on top of the opponent’s robot they are also in violation of rule “G35” because “a robot may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT on an opposing ALLIANCE…”

Also, rule “R37” does not make bumpers mandatory and the lack of bumpers on your robot should not be used against you during an infraction of rule “G35”.

So, what am I missing here?