Glove Control System?

[whytheheckme]

Yeah... Looking at the glove the way it is currently designed, it is going to take some work to get this to work. I should be able to do it with a small PIC, but I had some other questions about the rules.

It uses both a wire and infrared(I think this is the wireless technology that it uses.) Would this not be allowed, due to the whole wireless controller thing? The other question would have to be about using a PIC as a complex decoder for the signals coming out of the device. I'm pretty sure this would not be allowed, seeing that the only microprocessor that you can have hooked to the OI Inputs is the IFI (crosstheroad) USB Chicklet.

Any thoughts on this?

Jacob

[65_Xero_Huskie]

The Frog Force had a glove that controlled part of their robot. I dont know all of the detail but they were using it all year

[whytheheckme]

Hmm... Well, you could legally use the finger controls as simple buttons to the OI, which would work. But any of the positioning stuff violates two rules. I haven't seen Frog Force's design, but my guess is that they are simply using switches, not relative position.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

If memory serves me right, in 2004 (or 2003) 447 used glove controls for their robot. I don't know how they did it but they were fairly bulky.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by whytheheckme

the only microprocessor that you can have hooked to the OI Inputs is the IFI (crosstheroad) USB Chicklet.

Obviously, this year's rules don't apply to future games, but can you back up this claim with the 2007 rules?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by jgannon

Obviously, this year's rules don't apply to future games, but can you back up this claim with the 2007 rules?

With ease.

<R83> All equipment connected to the joystick ports of the Operator Interface must be powered solely through the power available through the port. External power sources of any type are not permitted on any equipment connected to the joystick ports. Portable computing devices can not be connected to joystick input ports on the Operator Interface. Powerpassive devices (e.g. joysticks that draw their power solely through the Operator Interface joystick port) are permitted. The one exception to this rule is Innovation First Incorporated USB adapters (IFI Part Number USB-CHICKLET) may be used to connect USB devices to the joystick ports of the Operator Interface. If used, this USB adapter must be powered with a 7.2V battery similar to the back-up battery. Teams can not use power from the competition port or any other source to power the USB adapter. The USB adapter must be positioned within the OPERATOR CONSOLE so that the indicator lights may be seen during inspection and operation in a match.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

With ease. <R83>...

All that says is that it can't be powered externally. It is quite possible to run a microcontroller off of the power available on the joystick port; we did it successfully this year.

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

All that says is that it can't be powered externally. It is quite possible to run a microcontroller off of the power available on the joystick port; we did it successfully this year.

<R83> All equipment connected to the joystick ports of the Operator Interface must be powered solely through the power available through the port. External power sources of any type are not permitted on any equipment connected to the joystick ports. Portable computing devices can not be connected to joystick input ports on the Operator Interface. Powerpassive devices (e.g. joysticks that draw their power solely through the Operator Interface joystick port) are permitted. The one exception to this rule is Innovation First Incorporated USB adapters (IFI Part Number USB-CHICKLET) may be used to connect USB devices to the joystick ports of the Operator Interface. If used, this USB adapter must be powered with a 7.2V battery similar to the back-up battery. Teams can not use power from the competition port or any other source to power the USB adapter. The USB adapter must be positioned within the OPERATOR CONSOLE so that the indicator lights may be seen during inspection and operation in a match.

So yeah, the processor would have to accept the power from the joystick port, and so would the glove (which is USB complient.. a lot of power). Also, I think the processor would be considered as a Portable Computing Device.

Although, perhaps an exception could be made with the GDC for this device in particular. Kind of like DDR pads don't officially follow the rules, the GDC has allowed them. I think the intent of this rule is to prevent you from plugging in a computational aid into the joystick ports to run your bot (like somthing plugged into your dashboard that is getting real-time info, or a laptop that can tell the robot what the best place to score is, etc.)

Jacob

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

All that says is that it can't be powered externally. It is quite possible to run a microcontroller off of the power available on the joystick port; we did it successfully this year.

This is what I was getting at. The traditional (and sensible) interpretation is that PICs are not computers.

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by jgannon

This is what I was getting at. The traditional (and sensible) interpretation is that PICs are not computers.

Perhaps, but there is still the power issue. I'm sure this thing consumes quite a bit of power (there is a wireless component (IR I believe) to it as well)...

Isn't that another rule somewhere? No wireless stuff other than IFI 900mhz? It's only IR (I think), but it still may be considered wireless.

I would love to be able to do this, but not if I build it and found out I can't use it.

Jacob

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by whytheheckme

I'm sure this thing consumes quite a bit of power (there is a wireless component (IR I believe) to it as well)...

Assuming that it's powered solely by USB... the most it can draw is 5v @ 500mA if I'm not mistaken. That, and IR LED's draw very little amperage (as do most LED's). Now, if it's legal for competition? I have no idea.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by jgannon

This is what I was getting at. The traditional (and sensible) interpretation is that PICs are not computers.

That is my opinion as well, and seems to be backed by various FRC Q&As. This one from last year (I know, I know - last year is not this year) said that translators were not considered portable computing devices. This one from 2007 indicates that any USB->15 pin adapter (if such a thing other than the Chicklet exists) is legal as long as it does not draw external power. Logically, that would extend to any sort of adapter that does not require external power. Attached is a picture of our OI with the two adapter boards that we designed and used.

Regarding the original topic, if it's USB couldn't you just use the Chicklet and be done with it?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

All that [<R83>] says is that it can't be powered externally. It is quite possible to run a microcontroller off of the power available on the joystick port; we did it successfully this year.

I always thought a plugged-in microprocessor matched the idea of a "portable computing device". However, it seems the Q&A draws the line at "external power source" rather than at my idea of "computing device".

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Also, HOT had a glove in 2005, but im not sure what they used it for either.