New Robot Control System!

[Shinigami2057]

Greetings Teams:

We are pleased to announce we have begun development on a new Robot Control System for the FIRST Robotics Competition. The new system will be introduced in the 2009 season.

While specifics are not yet available, the new electronics are expected to provided additional features such as: greater processing power and memory size, adaptability to a wider variety of programming languages, and include increased support for enhanced peripherals such as new sensors, vision systems, motor controllers etc.

We will keep you updated as we move through the development process. In the meantime, have a terrific summer and please check your email or our email archive page at http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=3520 for upcoming 2008 season information.

Go Teams!

So what do you guys think it will be? dsPIC? ARM? AVR? Blackfin? Robostix? Intel XScale? MIPS?

This could be very very awesome

[Gamer930]

OMG Speechless . . . . . .

USB????????????????
FireWire????????????
Non-Serial??????????

What other languages could it be??? Java?? actual C++?? C#??

Lets just hope it isn't another flop like the 2007 radios were and they do some actual testing

[Grant Cox]

Originally Posted by Gamer930

OMG Speechless . . . . . .

USB????????????????
FireWire????????????
Non-Serial??????????

USB is currently available

[DRH2o]

Originally Posted by GeeForce

USB is currently available

But not included

[ZZII 527]

If I may venture a wild guess based on my own speculative adventures into radio controlled robotics:

USB joysticks/controllers via a laptop included in the K.O.P. (OI+dashboard combined) and a new radio format - Zigbee? 2.4GHz, 115kbps up to 300'... http://www.maxstream.net/products/xb...ule-zigbee.php

Wireless everything, including programming and debugging.

As for..."adaptability to a wider variety of programming languages"...hrmmm, no ideas...

[seanl]

yay java programminng

[Qbranch]

mmmmm zigbee... that would be GREAT! no more drop outs, crushed flower pots, trashcans, or dented walls!

Don't think i want USB or FireWire for programming... i have this thing against networks getting in the way of me loading code... plus it would be a ton of overhead for the processor to run the USB stack. A dsPIC would be SWEEEET though... I just hope they keep C!

An updated OI with oLED matrix display (like those new osram pictiva ones, got the 3" screen demo kit, full color graphic display screen) for more readouts on the screen and the ability to make graphical outputs would be sweet...

Maybe moving all of the pwm outs up to 16 bits might be cool too... I did that on our robot this year and LOVED the results... not only do you get a ton more resolution but you also get to use all integer math for integrators n stuff since your numeric range is so huge...

I'd also like to see a higher chop rate speed controller, like 2KHz chop rate as opposed to the 120hz now so the first robots lose the angry buzzing.

I feel like i'm writing a christmas list...

-q

[EHaskins]

I want Linux!

I can't wait until 2009.

[Tom Line]

I for one hope they remember that while many newer langauges are nice, they are not taught at many high schools.

Visual Basic and C are basic languages that most schools will teach (if they teach anything). Going too far afield with the language (C# or C++ comes to mind) will force quite a few folks to have to try and learn a new langauge. I don't think that would be in the best interest of the competition.

Simple functionality improvements like wireless uploading to the Robot OI would be an incredible step forward in usability.

The option of storing several different compiled versions on board would be nice at times.

I actually appreciate the limited memory size and limited processing power. How many folks were forced to learning something new because doing floating point and trig killed the processor? It also prepares them for the state of the industry in most manufacturing environments. Finally, it forces folks towards elegant programming - clean code without a lot of garbage.

[Madison]

It's interesting that they'd decide to announce this so far in advance. I wonder how long it'll be before they release more information and whether this will affect how much development people put into auxiliary control system hardware next season.

[Dave Flowerday]

Sounds like this is not being done by IFI... anyone know who the new control system vendor is? I hope they're able to continue the same quality and reliability standards that IFI has created.

I also hope that FIRST is seeking out input from mentors in the program on the issues that would arise with this. Hopefully they're talking to software and electrical people about this.

Finally, it would be great if they picked a processor with a free toolchain (GCC would make the most sense). AVR or ARM would be a good choice for this. It would open the doors to Mac/Linux development. Unfortunately I think they have a strong relationship with Microchip so we'll probably continue to see more PICs in there...

[Greg Needel]

Change is scary, more now then in other situations. If you look at the past to see how FIRST has handled new technology there have been many problems. Hatch, Banebots, the old FIRST controller, etc. I have my doubts about a change of this magnitude. If I am interpreting this email blast correctly it leads me to believe that the RC, OI, Victor, Spike, Arena Controller, and field control software will be all be gone.

Now I do see the potential for this change which will enable established teams to do more with their robots, but my doubts stem from the rookie teams of 2009 and on. Rookie teams need support from veterans which will be a seemingly impossible task if everyone is in the dark. Utilities like easyC and the WPI libraries will all have to be redone. I know that there is better technology out there which could make things easier but how much harder will it be to run an event when the bugs are still being worked out.

I am happy that they decided to give this development over one year but it concerns me that FIRST might have cut their nose off to spite their face by locking themselves into a new system which as of now is probably just on the drawing board or early stages of development. I just hope that the people who make decisions know what they are doing in this situation.

[Covey41]

This topic is less than 3 hours old and the Chief Delphi community is complianing already:

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

Sounds like this is not being done by IFI... anyone know who the new control system vendor is? I hope they're able to continue the same quality and reliability standards that IFI has created.

Let's not forget the 2007 radios! (No cell phones near the radio towers.)

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

Change is scary, more now then in other situations. If you look at the past to see how FIRST has handled new technology there have been many problems. Hatch, Banebots, the old FIRST controller, etc. I have my doubts about a change of this magnitude. If I am interpreting this email blast correctly it leads me to believe that the RC, OI, Victor, Spike, Arena Controller, and field control software will be all be gone.

I don't care who designed it, or who makes it, NO ONE makes anything perfect the first time, or for that matter everytime.

Lets disprove a new saying overherd at the VIP reception in Atlanta:
"FIRST - Technolgy building egos"

The process just started, give them a chance!

[Rohith Surampudi]

Originally Posted by EHaskins

I want Linux!

I can't wait until 2009.

i met 2 gentlemen in Atlanta, one from Google, and one from Red Hat who mentioned to me that they were hoping to have linux in our robots for the next season... maybe this is the results of their work...

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Covey41

This topic is only less than 3 hours old and the Chief Delphi community is complianing already

That's not a complaint at all. My concern is that this is a critical piece of the FIRST puzzle and we have a good, working solution in place. I'm all for new technology (and I think the control system could use a refresh). FIRST has a good history of having things "not work" in the 1.0 release (see scoring software for the last 4 years as an example).

Let's not forget the 2007 radios! (No cell phones near the radio towers.)

Yes, this was a problem. But, given the amount of stuff produced by IFI, it's fair to say that that was anomaly. Also, the problem was resolved before any official competitions occurred (and seemed to be a complete non-issue from that point on).