New Robot Control System!

[John Gutmann]

Where is have you thought about laptop size? the fragile LCD screen on it? Cost? a way to mount it. A operation system that will run without error, which means perfectly with a higher efficiency. This means no linux, no unix, no mac, no windows. they all get errors occasionally.

An embedded device is for more then controlling a microwave......there is is embedded devices in more things then you think. Cell phones and PDAs have said "embedded devices" in them. So if a PDA can have one why not a robot? If you give me a really good reason. I would certainly change my view on the subject, but until then I still think embedded is the way to go.

-John

[Protronie]

I have to say this topic has me scratching my head. I know just next to nothing about programing. My skills are in the nuts and bolts of things and quick fixes that get the job done.

I've been struggling to learn some C programing. Info here and from the young people I've work with have begun to help me understand programing.

I would hope that FIRST would take things slow and thoughtful before changing the programing languish .
I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels like a blind man in a room full of sharp objects when it comes to programing.

I would love something where all your would have to do is type:
Robot go forward 20 feet, turn right 90 degrees, go forward 10 feet, stop.
And it would do just that.

I know its a dream but its my dream so hey...

Your never too old to learn new tricks, but some old dogs just take longer to learn them.

Well thats my 2 cents on this.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Protronie

...I would love something where all your would have to do is type:
Robot go forward 20 feet, turn right 90 degrees, go forward 10 feet, stop.
And it would do just that.

I know its a dream but its my dream so hey...

I helped develop an autonomous scripting system for our 2005 and 2006 robots that does exactly what you're dreaming of. We didn't use it this year because it seemed more important to make everything driven by camera feedback instead of by a prewritten script.

If things go well in our off-season software training this fall, I'll consider polishing it up for publication here.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I helped develop an autonomous scripting system for our 2005 and 2006 robots that does exactly what you're dreaming of. We didn't use it this year because it seemed more important to make everything driven by camera feedback instead of by a prewritten script.

If things go well in our off-season software training this fall, I'll consider polishing it up for publication here.

Ditto. Team 1024's programming group calls ours RALFF... even has a (slightly unstable ) GUI compainion software that allows easy compilation of autonomous scripts by anybody on the team. RALFF was installed on this year's robot however its sensors never worked so it didnt show off like many saw on our amazing 2006 autonomous modes...

I'll have to write a whitepaper on scripting languages sometime... ehh... sometime...

And eh, again, on the whole x86 based robot controller thing... to make it work (and no, the HDD would NEVER take the g's)... you'd need a heck of alot of hardware... see previous post for an estimate.

-q

[ThomasP]

Originally Posted by John Gutmann

Where is have you thought about laptop size? the fragile LCD screen on it? Cost? a way to mount it. A operation system that will run without error, which means perfectly with a higher efficiency. This means no linux, no unix, no mac, no windows. they all get errors occasionally.

An embedded device is for more then controlling a microwave......there is is embedded devices in more things then you think. Cell phones and PDAs have said "embedded devices" in them. So if a PDA can have one why not a robot? If you give me a really good reason. I would certainly change my view on the subject, but until then I still think embedded is the way to go.

-John

Have you heard of cheap laptops? I went to Dell just now and saw laptop for $550, only $100 more than the current RC. If Dell became a sponsor, I'm sure they could knock another $100 off the price to match the other RC...

P.S. - I think my cell phone runs code a bit higher up than C... and I know it runs Java.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by ThomasP

Have you heard of cheap laptops? I went to Dell just now and saw laptop for $550, only $100 more than the current RC. If Dell became a sponsor, I'm sure they could knock another $100 off the price to match the other RC...

P.S. - I think my cell phone runs code a bit higher up than C... and I know it runs Java.

Erm. The issue with slapping any random laptop on the robot is that it doesn't DO anything. Not by itself. Laptops have no way to communicate with remote joysticks or speed controllers or anything else. Don't think for a second that all the analog, digital, PWM, and special serial I/Os that we want are going to come cheap. That kind of hardware will run you atleast another $300. And that's not covering how the heck you talk to the joysticks.

Also, since when do we programmers start begging to get off easy? The mechanical side of things may have more motors and parts options than ever, but they still have to cram everything into the box and get it under weight. I think it'd be a bit unsporting if the programming side of the equation suddenly had effectively unlimited hardware resources.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

...Don't think for a second that all the analog, digital, PWM, and special serial I/Os that we want are going to come cheap. That kind of hardware will run you atleast another $300. And that's not covering how the heck you talk to the joysticks...

...I think it'd be a bit unsporting if the programming side of the equation suddenly had effectively unlimited hardware resources.

I couldnt agree more. Just to reinforce, here's a sample price list of just SOME of the stuff you need to interface the CPU with a robot and a remote control pannel:

1) First, the previously mentioned laptop... $550

2) (1) NI DAQcard-DIO-24 card providing 24lines of digital i/o... NEARLY replaces the 16 digital i/o lines leaving 8 lines of I/O left for pwm... $199

3) (1) NI DAQcard-6024E card providing 16lines analog input and 8 lines digital i/o (to replace remaining 8 pwm pins)... $699

4) (opt) To get all the nice brought out pins the FIRST controller has, you'll need a breakout board, two of them, for a total of... $300

5) (2) USB->Serial converters, one for TTL port to a vision system or other peripheral, one for communication with the radio... $20

6) (2) XBee-PKG-R RS-232 Radio Modems for communication between the robot and the operator interface... $218

7) (1) PICDEM HPC Explorer board to make your own Operator Interface... $59

8) (opt) PC board for breakout of pins from the HPC board to your joysticks n such (optional if you want to make your board look nice)... $20~50

Provided you have your own joysticks and everything, this brings the sum total of this control system to $2065 as opposed to the current control system's price of $1147. I might also add that the components listed above would also need a safe haven in which to rest within the robot, which would add a large amount of weight and fabrication time to robot designs.

Well... that was a fun research project.

C code just because it's lower level doesnt mean it's bad, it just means it lets you operate closer to the actual control hardware than other programming languages. Also, I'd rather have a controller that weighs less than a pound and takes up very little space than a laptop which weighs several pounds and takes up a lot of space. Plus, the premade IFI operator interface pannel makes constructing an OI pannel a whole lot simpler.

Have a good weekend folks,

-q