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View Poll Results: (Read the post first) Was the teacher justified in his actions?
Yes 13 38.24%
No 15 44.12%
Other--explain 6 17.65%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-05-2007, 23:19
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Re: Moral question

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
After reading the assignment over very carefully, I think it is a beautiful assignment. In that, I mean, beautiful. It could mine gold.
After reading it again, from a newbie perspective, gosh, you're right! I wish I could've written this, but with about a month to sort it out.

Quote:
I fear though, because it is the end of the year, students are stressed and at year's end - probably - and ready for the summer to begin - that the assignment will not be what it could be.
Thank you. That's part of why this felt wrong; I just didn't have that sorted out in my head yet.

I do wish I could've explored this earlier. Wow, I think I'm a nerd...

I'm going to write a letter to the teacher. He will be open-minded to it as he always has been; the fact that I did the original assignment helps.

The short time and the heavy weight make it a punishment--something an assignment should never be. Assignments should be an invitation to stretch and grow and learn--isn't that why we're in school?

I'll let you know what kind of response I get.

Thanks all.

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Unread 30-05-2007, 23:53
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Re: Moral question

I am inclined to take the teacher's side on this. I've played in the orchestra at my high school for the last four years, and this seems like an issue we often ran into. Most classes are just groups of individual learning, with the occasional group project, but the vast majority of the work is individual. However, when the teacher creates a group assignment, everyone is forced to participate. This was an issue in the orchestra because if someone did not know their part, the entire group suffered. The original assignment is similar in the sense that it seems to fail to achieve its goal when not everyone participates. As a result, in orchestra, our orchestra teacher often guilt tripped us, punished us with incredibly hard assignments, and has been a general jerk for the last 4 years. For instance, he once walked out of our class yelling "this is why I am an alcoholic!” Alas, the teacher is in the right, and besides the essay he assigned is not that hard, my AP English teacher gave us 11 AP essays (from previous years) due the next day, and it wasn't even to punish us...
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Unread 30-05-2007, 23:58
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Re: Moral question

Jbot,
I am going to agree with several of the posters here, Don, Kelli, Jaine and Jane. Life isn't fair but it most certainly carries consequences. This will be viewed by some students as a blessing and most of the others as a curse. The reality lies in the failure to process the original assignment, worth points or not, graded or not. It still was an assignment that was not completed which always will have a consequence.
It is hard for anyone to judge when presented with this story as there is the possibility of so many more variables than those listed. My advice to students is to go to the teacher and have a discussion with him. Be sure to go with an open mind and I think you may be presented with a surprising response. Teachers for the most part want to teach and they want you to succeed. You do have to meet them halfway but when you do the result is incredible to behold.
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Unread 31-05-2007, 00:50
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Re: Moral question

He said the assignment will not be graded. Which means it will not be graded on the content, but did he say anything about a completion grade? I too agree it is unfair, but have also had teacher say the assignment will not be graded, meaning the content, and then we come to find out that there is a completion grade. Which the teacher though was fair because she said the content of what you hand in will not be graded, she never stated if there was a completion grade. Anyways I think it is unfair to punish the whole class, as you have no control over your classmates. It is like getting a bad grade on a group project because 1 group member did nothing. Go talk to an addministator. If that doesn't work have your parents go talk to them admin, that always seemed to get the topic more attention for me. My school thought people would always make things up to get attention.

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Unread 31-05-2007, 02:56
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Re: Moral question

The assigned question is perfectly valid, and as others have pointed out, interesting. Given other circumstances, it would be worthy of serious consideration.

But the requirements described are asinine. He's basically picked out many of the standard techniques for an essay, and said 'use them all to excess'. The insistence upon 15 rhetorical devices, two illustrations and a literary excerpt is ample evidence of this. Those things are not to be used wantonly to add bulk to a piece—they're there to emphasize your central ideas, as necessary. To require them in that quantity likely implies malice, for I have a hard time believing that an English teacher doesn't know that they're more likely to pollute the piece than to add meaning to it. Can you imagine if I decided to fill this post with similies and characterization, just because someone thought 15 was a nice number? It would likely be unreadable trash. Besides, writers like Asimov (with something like 450 published books to his name...) seemed to make do just fine with an unembellished style; why pretend that rhetorical devices are the only way to describe an argument?

And the signatures of two community members? That's outrageous. Your opinions should not be subject to the ratification of two random individuals. He should be promoting an environment where you are free to express yourself, not forced to pander to their opinion of literary worthiness—especially not after you've taken the time to write the piece. (And while it makes sense to target your piece to the community which it concerns, that requirement should be easy for a teacher to evaluate; why involve others with such a simple task?) And on top of that, hunting down signatures is likely to be a waste of time.

The statement that the assignment will be "graded on completeness, accuracy, and evidence of a robust, detailed, methodical, comprehensive, diligent, mature approach that honors the spirit of this assignment" necessitates that you ask what the spirit of the assignment is. Indeed, when the assignment was created spontaneously, assigned preferentially, and so transparently describes his apparent emotion toward the students' actions, it's hard to imagine that the spirit of the assignment has anything to do with the qualities detailed in that phrase. Isn't it a contradiction in terms to write of, and indeed demand maturity, and yet create an assignment in an episode of petulance?

Best of all, he writes that "[f]ailure to incorporate any one of the project requirements listed above will earn an automatic zero." That's the most damning evidence that this isn't about pedagogy at all. The marks are supposed to say something about the quality of the work. If he's going to allocate a large quantity of marks to a project, then that's a pretty compelling reason to distribute marks for that which is of good quality, and to withhold them for that which is of poor quality. Making the marking scheme binary means that the student doesn't get the feedback that the teacher owes them, concerning the quality of their work. How is the student supposed to improve the quality of their writing if they don't know how badly they screwed up?

In the grand scheme of things, this is the sort of test that might be used to build loyalty, by negative reinforcement of any behaviour which is considered out of line. In some situations, like military units, unwavering compliance is considered a virtue. In other instances, however, the ability to prioritize tasks and reject or defer the least critical ones is more valuable—medical triage, for example. I don't think that it's appropriate to paint those who didn't hand the original assignment in as having betrayed him, because it's not at all clear that they were acting out of spite.

Sure, life isn't fair. But that's not an excuse for being a nuissance. If the requirements and consequences of the initial essay were spelled out in advance, I don't think there would be any complaints. The problem exists because he moved the goalposts*, and in so doing, is betraying the students in the same manner in which he believes that they betrayed him. What sort of a lesson is that? If you're feeling down, bring others down with you?

One wonders why he doesn't simply have this discussion in class, out in the open, rather than screw around with the marking scheme.

You're right to discuss this with him, and the other students. You're also right to address the matter to his department head or administrator. Unfortunately, someone from the life-isn't-fair department may well want to have a word with you—in essence, you could sabotage your standing in other areas by bringing a complaint. It's the classic problem with whistleblowing; you risk people thinking less of you by doing it. With that in mind, I've got to agree with the advice that Don gave below; talk to someone who is required to keep the matter confidential, such as a guidance counsellor. They'll (hopefully) be able to advise you on what is allowed by the school, and will (hopefully) shield you from any personal consequences arising from your criticism.

One thing that might be interesting to consider is that despite his apparent poor conduct, the teacher seemed to have good intentions when creating the original assignment. In light of that, it seems to me that whatever malice was applied to the creation of the second assignment was born out of an emotional reaction, rather than a calculated desire to wreak havoc. I suppose it's as good example as any why you most often can't simply pick sides and declare one to be good and the other to be evil.

*See, I can use rhetorical devices too!
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Unread 31-05-2007, 08:02
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Re: Moral question

I believe that immediate, respectful, and direct communication with the AP teacher is the best course of action, but students should be working on the assignment as they are doing this! For those students who actually complete this assignment, I pose the following course of action for consideration. I am curious to know what other mentors think of this idea.

Bottom line - for anyone who fears retribution upon reading this course of action and attempting it, keep in mind, you should not be penalized for completing your assignments properly. That is the original point the teacher was trying to make in the first place, no?

If any tinge of malfeasance or underhandedness were to be attributed to this approach, I would, at worst, classify this as a subtle form of "passive resistance". At best, a student is simply seeking to complete the assignment as directed.

************************************************** ***
Requirement - "Signatures of two community members who can attest to the literary worthiness of your essay"

I would presume your AP teacher would agree that other English teachers at your school are "community members who can attest to the literary worthiness" of these essays? By seeking at least one of the signatures from your teacher's fellow coworkers, that might pique their interest enough to strike up a civil conversation about the nature of the assignment itself. It is, after all, a rather odd requirement - seeking signature approval of one's literary work. It's certainly nothing I've seen during my AP English days or in any college course I took. By seeking signature approval from this qualified source, you may open the door for them to learn the background info regarding the assignment and give them an opportunity to discreetly decide for themselves whether or not they feel it is too "punishing" a task given the time left in the school year. You are informing them with honest information, introducing the assignment into the "court of coworker opinion". Upon weighing the evidence, they may decide to privately talk with your AP teacher and serve as an ally as they try to smooth things out. Or they might agree with your AP teacher completely and take no action. Either way, you got one of your signatures, no? So check that requirement off the list.

This approach requires a calm, cool, and collected demeanor. A student should take great care to responsibly pursue the signature and provide "just the facts" about the assignment requirements to the hopeful signer. A student should not use the opportunity to "bash" the assignment or their AP teacher. They shouldn't whine, protest, or grandstand. They should just provide the facts....and hopefully obtain the signature they seek. Anything else is gravy.

I do believe this teacher stands to benefit from other people weighing in from different points of view on this topic. That would include the opinions of his fellow English Department coworkers.
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Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 31-05-2007 at 09:44.
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Unread 31-05-2007, 11:43
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Re: Moral question

I agree with the majority that the essay itself is doable in the time alotted. I do find this clause quite interesting.
Quote:
Failure to incorporate any one of the project requirements listed above will earn an automatic zero.
Given the amount of time left in your school year before grades are due, I find it hard to believe that a teacher will really WANT to read 30 essays of 4-5 pages in length and carefully identify all of the requirements to verify that you have included or excluded them. So he has made a large amount of work for himself. To assist him in this monumental task, I think you all should submit 10 page essays and take care to space the requirements throughout the entire essay to make sure all of it needs to be read to verify that the requirements were completed.
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Unread 31-05-2007, 11:45
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Re: Moral question

It's always interesting to me to see how hard students would be on each other if they were the teacher. Ya'all are tough!

All points made in this discussion are valid and represent thoughtful consideration of the dilemma.

I'll weigh in as a teacher. I too am guilty of punishment assignments. It is very irritating to put effort into planning meaningful lessons and have students blow them off. It is tempting to act on the "I'll get them" reaction.

That being said, it appears unclear whether not grading the assignment meant it was not required. Does this teacher often give required assignments that are not graded? Many times, punishment assignments are just busy work, but this teacher took the time to craft a lesson with clear expectations.

Straying from the syllabus at this time of the year is the problem. Everyone is stressed out and has their time scheduled down to the minute. Students work, have other assignments and exams they are preparing for. Also, if 300 points is a significant percentage of the overall points, the assignment deserves more time for consideration.

I hate to say things aren't fair - I've been telling my daughters since they were little kids that life isn't fair and that you need to learn to deal with angry and unpleasant people. At the same time, the worst decisions I've ever made in disciplining them OR my students have been arbitrary.

I'd talk to the teacher. Some of us are quite approachable. It may not change the outcome, but a respectful exchange of opinion is healthy.

I for one, would be interested in the conclusion of your moral dilemma.
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Unread 31-05-2007, 12:24
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Re: Moral question

I don't know if someone beat me to talking with him, or if he realized overnight what a monster he created, but the teacher changed his mind; the students that did not do the original assignment now are required to get 2 college applications online and do them; it is possibly for a grade--not sure how heavy of a weight it will be--but this assignment is actually doable. The "betrayal" essay is gone. Only one student did it overnight, and she was not pulled out today with the rest of the students who did not do the original assignment--I think the teacher did the right thing and let her go on with the group project. Not sure if she was excused from the college essays.

I did talk with the teacher after class; I told him that I would have loved to do the essay but that I would have needed about another 2 weeks. He agreed. He is considering using it next year at the end of the year, but he says if he does he will make sure there is enough time.

Everyone is much happier; the drama is over.

That's the big conclusion.

Thanks for your advice, though.
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Last edited by JBotAlan : 31-05-2007 at 12:26.
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Unread 31-05-2007, 23:02
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Re: Moral question

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Originally Posted by JBotAlan View Post
I did talk with the teacher after class; I told him that I would have loved to do the essay but that I would have needed about another 2 weeks. He agreed. He is considering using it next year at the end of the year, but he says if he does he will make sure there is enough time.
That's the best part of the discussion, Jacob. Awesome.
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Unread 01-06-2007, 02:58
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Re: Moral question

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Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
That's the best part of the discussion, Jacob. Awesome.
I agree. This teacher seems smart, but overzealous. Much unlike my girlfriends regular English teacher in which she completed a 7 page essay in 13 pages and was given an 88% because she talked about FIRST too much.

Anyways, I'm glad the teacher came to his senses and decided to alleviate some of the stress on the students in the class.
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Unread 05-06-2007, 21:22
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Re: Moral question

I am split between the two. The teacher is right, on the part of it will prepare you for college, and, like Jane said, it could essentially "Mine Gold".

Now to defend the students. The assignment is worth WAY to many points, especially due in that few of days. A "Betrayal Assignment", not right, he should have called it something else and at least keep the true reason to himself. He could get in some trouble for that. One last thing, he should have made it due for when they came back or had them send it to him by a certain date. Assigning it durring the week of Finals is just way to much stress. I wouldn't have been able to find the time to do it because of my studdying it.
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Unread 05-06-2007, 21:49
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Re: Moral question

This assignment he gave you was probably what your were supposed to do for the end of the year. However, he thought it was to your benefit to work on the college project. I am also assuming that you have no 'exam' for the AP class at the end of the year. So therefore, he wanted to allow you guys to spend more time studying for other exams because you worked just as hard for the AP exam in May. Therefore, while it may not be fair, he is justified in assigning it to you to do.
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