Goodbye IFI?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

I'm not sure that IFI created the Vex package. RadioShack was selling them until the beginning of this year and IFI bought the "Vex" name and/or rights to sell the product. Who actually came up with the name? I have no clue.

IFI developed VEX. Radio Shack just sold it. When Radio Shack quit, IFI sold the kits and parts online.

Pleases do not state things that you don't know to be true. What I have seen in this thread is at least 99% speculation, if not more. I'm going to wait for the official word on this to come out, if it really happens to be true.Could IFI be quitting FIRST? Possibly. I have, however, seen no evidence of this. Even the first post had some things that could have other reasons; e.g. the kitbot trannies to BaneBots trannies could have simply been trying something new or "advertising" for BB. Let's look at each piece of "evidence" and see what all the possible reasons could be and then see if it looks like IFI is stopping their support.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by EricH

e.g. the kitbot trannies to BaneBots trannies could have simply been trying something new or "advertising" for BB. Let's look at each piece of "evidence" and see what all the possible reasons could be and then see if it looks like IFI is stopping their support.

The kitbot point is misleading in the first place. While they may have been sold by IFI, they were the brainchild of Paul Copioli, not IFI.

[Adam Y.]

vex (vks)
tr.v. vexed, vex·ing, vex·es

2. To cause perplexity in; puzzle.
I believe this is the reason. And I agree with Bharat's assessment wondering why FIRST would change the name if changing to another kit was not eminent.

It's generally is a negative type of conotation within the context of frustration.

Have any of you noticed that FIRST and Microsoft are partnering for the 2008 season(1)(2)? BUT if many of you didn't know Microsoft has its own little robotics program called Microsoft Robotics Studio(3)? Now I don't know if I'm crazy or doing some math wrong but, Microsoft is HUGE and has the potential to invest a TON of money into the FIRST programs. Now for me, FIRST + Microsoft = A new tree of ideas, parts, and people = Smaller companies (IFI) will be kicked out.

Uggg... That's a horrible idea. Microsoft Robotics Studio is a great looking program but it's just way to complicated for FIRST. You would have to give out computers to every single team because it requires a computer to run the robot. It's just so much easier to use an embedded processor.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by EricH

IFI developed VEX. Radio Shack just sold it. When Radio Shack quit, IFI sold the kits and parts online.

Together we got it correct:
http://www.ifirobotics.com/docs/vex_release_4-17-06.pdf

[ZZII 527]

Originally Posted by Adam Y.

Uggg... That's a horrible idea. Microsoft Robotics Studio is a great looking program but it's just way to complicated for FIRST. You would have to give out computers to every single team because it requires a computer to run the robot. It's just so much easier to use an embedded processor.

Is that true? I thought MSRS can be used as basically an emulator and can eventually offload the entire program onto the robot hardware. So MSRS is more like a combination of MPLAB and EasyC, but there still needs to be some kind of hardware embedded controller, which could be anything. (Right now there are about eight supported systems, including MindStorms and the iRobot Create, but I suspect this will grow.)

[pufame]

This Microsoft "Robotics Studio" looks pretty cool, if you look at their list of partners here
you can see that there are some groups using it that already have ties to FIRST (LEGO NXT, Segway inc.) and other big names in robotics. But whatever FIRST decides I'm sure will be for the best and will probably be for reasons beyond what anyone here has thought of, so speculation is more or less pointless.

I just think this Microsoft software looks neat-o to play with

[Lil' Lavery]

Rumors and speculation do nobody any good. If you have a credible source, please specify it, but posting your own theories will likely only blow a situation out of proportion. Even if FIRST has made some moves away from IFI in the past year, there is no reason to suspect that all connections with IFI are about to be severed, and no reason to suspect that IFI is not involved in this process somehow. And while I hope these rumors aren't true, and that IFI remains an integral part of FIRST, speculating about IFI and FIRST's future will likely cause more harm than help.

[KTorak]

With all of the changes in FIRST, I would not be surprised if they are moving out with the old and bringing in the new -or- restructuring as businesses call it. I only draw this conclusion with things such as; the new field software (no longer provided by Hatch), the new Banebot 'stuff', and other subtle changes that have been occurring over the past year or two. While I draw this conclusion, i'll let others draw the conclusion of whether they feel/see this as a good or bad move on FIRST's part.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by ZZII 527

Is that true? I thought MSRS can be used as basically an emulator and can eventually offload the entire program onto the robot hardware. So MSRS is more like a combination of MPLAB and EasyC, but there still needs to be some kind of hardware embedded controller, which could be anything. (Right now there are about eight supported systems, including MindStorms and the iRobot Create, but I suspect this will grow.)

It's more complicated and powerful than MPLAB and EasyC by far. There really is no reason why any robot couldn't be controlled using it. I think the most flexibility comes from running it within the robot itself. A speaker from Microsoft was actually controlling a robot that was running MSRS from a web browser. He showed how you can start and stop any subroutine using any computer that has a webrowser (With emphasis on any webrowser).

[Cody Carey]

I am just posting this as a note to all the people Who are telling everyone that speculation is wrong, and a bad Idea. It is not. This is an open forum, and the community can speculate all they want about whatever subject(s) they want... and it will do nobody any harm. There is no "situation" to be blown out of proportion, and If IFI is leaving first, who cares? They have been wonderful partners, but the only reason to morn their leaving this early in the game is fear of change. As pointed out in the first post and many subsequent ones, there ARE reasons to suspect first's leaving IFI, and as a group of innovative, thinking people... Why not discuss the future?

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Cody Carey

I am just posting this as a note to all the people Who are telling everyone that speculation is wrong, and a bad Idea. It is not. This is an open forum, and the community can speculate all they want about whatever subject(s) they want... and it will do nobody any harm. There is no "situation" to be blown out of proportion, and If IFI is leaving first, who cares? They have been wonderful partners, but the only reason to morn their leaving this early in the game is fear of change. As pointed out in the first post and many subsequent ones, there ARE reasons to suspect first's leaving IFI, and as a group of innovative, thinking people... Why not discuss the future?

Speculation in and of itself isn't terrible, of course, but the source of such speculation can lead to problems. If someone has access to privileged information and shares that information with someone else, they've made an error in judgement. That error is somewhat mitigated, you might say, if the person they share it with has some sense of responsibility or appreciation for that privileged information and what it means to those it belongs to. Running to the internet and writing, "I heard," or "someone told me," could be a great way to get someone fired or worse.

I merely cautioned folks to think carefully about what information they think they might have and whether it's prudent to share it on this public forum.

[Tim Delles]

Ok so i have read this a few times and I have been up to date with everything here.

Now i do know that IFI employees do surf CD very often. Now not to put them on any spot or anything (they may not know of any plans that may exist with FIRST or the lack there of) but if you know anything can you please fill the FIRST community in on it.

***Thanks Alan, i was planning on putting the following part in but forgot***

We understand that most of the time if you know something you can't say it. But if you are allowed to speak on this topic can you please let us know.

[sanddrag]

I'm a little uneasy about this "tactic" that seems to come up on CD fairly often in recent times. It seems like we create and then stir these rumors and/or controversies until FIRST or someone else has no choice but to come out and settle them. And I'm not so sure that's too thrilling for them. I say we just learn to have a little more patience.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'll ditto M. Krass. Some around FIRST corporate almost certainly know what's coming, but they're obviously not going to talk and anyone who's heard something is probably putting their job and/or reputation at risk by talking. Asking IFI people to comment on things that FIRST obviously doesn't want bandied about is just silly. I think speculating that they're doomed and being kicked out is just as silly and possibly a bit mean. Think about this, If they're being dropped by FIRST, you're just constantly reminding them of the business they're losing in 2 years. If they're not, you're just annoying them by implying they can't design something to satisfy FIRST.

I'm just as curious as everyone else, and more or less just as in the dark, but I don't think wild speculation on something of this import is terribly productive. It's a bit different than the constant rumor of a water game, after all.

That said, I really, really, really don't want to have anything to do with the MS Robotics Studio. I'd rather keep the option of switching to Linux and avoiding Vista, and most other control system options atleast leave that as a possibility.

[Nuttyman54]

To re-iterate what Sanddrag said, FIRST will inform us of any changes when they feel the time is right. Would knowing RIGHT NOW instead of in a few months really affect you that much?

If FIRST is, in fact, moving away from IFI, then now is probably the worst time to be sharing information publicly about what is going on.