Go to Post How you say something is often just as important as what you say. - Rachel Lim [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2007, 10:34
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,417
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Indeed this is a great discussion.

There are really 2 dramatically different situations present:

1. Sponsors to the FIRST organization
2. Sponsors to FIRST teams

I believe that FIRST as an organization (the 501c3 based out of Manchester) has been selective regarding sponsors and still needs to be. Even receiving donated materials and services comes under scrutiny and vendors need to be held to a certain standard that suits FIRST's needs.

FIRST teams have more freedom to choose who their sponsors are, of course. Teams need to set their own criteria for sponsorship and have the ability to have a wider standard than what FIRST-Manchester has to deal with.

Here's a hypothetical situation...

An alchohol-brewing company approaches FIRST-Manchester with sponsorship resources. What does FIRST do? Currently, most likely, they respecfully decline. They *could* suggest to the company that they sponsor a team in their area, while promoting their "drink responsibly" campaign. This way, the relationship is between the team and the company, and not FIRST as a whole and the company. This relationship could be a litmus test to see how a positive relationship could come about.

I have no idea if this has happened before, but am only offering an idea if it would.

Andy B.
Reply With Quote
  #47   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2007, 10:47
Alivia's Avatar
Alivia Alivia is offline
Every moment is a Kodak one.
FRC #0071 (Team Hammond)
Team Role: Photography
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Hammond
Posts: 147
Alivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Alivia
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker View Post
I believe that FIRST as an organization (the 501c3 based out of Manchester) has been selective regarding sponsors and still needs to be. Even receiving donated materials and services comes under scrutiny and vendors need to be held to a certain standard that suits FIRST's needs.

FIRST teams have more freedom to choose who their sponsors are, of course. Teams need to set their own criteria for sponsorship and have the ability to have a wider standard than what FIRST-Manchester has to deal with.
This was the point I was trying to make, but it sounds much better and way more clear!

FIRST as a whole has a responsibility as to who they chose to sponsor the program. Whoever they chose will (in part) be representing FIRST. This makes it harder to allow acohol, tobacco, or other related companies to majorly sponsor FIRST.

However, in the case of team sponsorship, each team should have its own set of rules regarding sponsorship and what that particular team believes to be an okay sponsor to have. The factors that constitute an good sponsor to have will definitely vary from team to team, region to region, etc.
__________________
2004-2007 AND 2011-PRESENT: Team Hammond #71
2007-2011
Team 1720/PhyXTGears


To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe. -Anatole France
Reply With Quote
  #48   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2007, 12:16
JohnBoucher JohnBoucher is offline
Blue Shirt
FRC #0237
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 2,927
JohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

So why can FIRST have a regional in "Sin City" ???
Reply With Quote
  #49   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2007, 13:35
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoucher View Post
So why can FIRST have a regional in "Sin City" ???
That is easy to answer. It could be argued that 'sin city' isn't really any more sinful than any other major (or minor) city.
__________________
Ed Barker
Reply With Quote
  #50   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-08-2007, 14:35
JohnBoucher JohnBoucher is offline
Blue Shirt
FRC #0237
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 2,927
JohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond reputeJohnBoucher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
That is easy to answer. It could be argued that 'sin city' isn't really any more sinful than any other major (or minor) city.
Is it not perception we are discussing here? It's all in how we feel about it.
Reply With Quote
  #51   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 11:08
Rich Kressly's Avatar
Rich Kressly Rich Kressly is offline
Robot/STEM troublemaker since 2001
no team (Formerly 103 & 1712. Now run U.P. Robotics (other programs))
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Pennsburg, PA
Posts: 2,045
Rich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond reputeRich Kressly has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoucher View Post
Is it not perception we are discussing here? It's all in how we feel about it.
Yep, I hear ya John and you have a real point, but doesn't it also make sense that students in all places, especially a place dubbed "Sin City", deserve to have this very different experience in their lives? If word gets out in a place like Vegas about FIRST, might it also inspire some of the adults to act differently?
__________________
technology, innovation, and invention without a social conscience will only allow us to destroy ourselves in more creative ways
Reply With Quote
  #52   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 11:15
StephLee's Avatar
StephLee StephLee is offline
Deadlines? What are those?
AKA: Stephanie
FRC #0639 (Code Red Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 796
StephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond reputeStephLee has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to StephLee
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kressly View Post
Yep, I hear ya John and you have a real point, but doesn't it also make sense that students in all places, especially a place dubbed "Sin City", deserve to have this very different experience in their lives? If word gets out in a place like Vegas about FIRST, might it also inspire some of the adults to act differently?

Might having a brewery sponsoring a FIRST team inspire them to act more responsibly with regard to the teenagers who inevitably illegally consume their product?

It seems to me that a balance is desirable between maintaining and protecting the image and public perception of FIRST (or an individual team) and potentially impacting a company's image or policies through contact with FIRST.
__________________
Proud alum of FRC Team 1629 and mentor of FRC Team 639
Cornell Engineering class of 2012!!
Reply With Quote
  #53   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 11:30
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

This thread is provoking thought in at least 3 different directions for me right now.

1. Mr. Kressly's comment about inspiring adults (and others) to act differently.
That made me think of qualities that FIRSTers would like to encourage. What would those be? To help bring about change from the inside out - working with a potential sponsor/working within a community - what change would we encourage?

2. If a regional can occur in Las Vegas, can/do teams take advantage of the options available as far as fundraising in that area that might not be available in other places and what would those options be? That ties into obtaining sponsors and developing/promoting those relationships that would be found in Vegas or areas similar.

3. With the continual development of technology and scientific discoveries in this world of cause and effect - self responsibility/accountability will increase in importance, not diminish. We've discussed the products of the potential sponsors. A-B can promote the 21 campaign but each person has to be accountable for the decision regarding that. They (A-B) make and sell a product. That is their business.


Edit: I'm adding this in here above Alivia's post (#54). It's from the FIRST website, highlighting 3 of the FIRST sponsors and what some of their contributions to the FIRST mission are/have been:
http://www.usfirst.org/involved/spon...nt.aspx?id=210

This is the sponsor FAQ in the FIRST website:
http://www.usfirst.org/involved/spon...nt.aspx?id=214
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)

Last edited by JaneYoung : 25-08-2007 at 13:04. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #54   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 12:49
Alivia's Avatar
Alivia Alivia is offline
Every moment is a Kodak one.
FRC #0071 (Team Hammond)
Team Role: Photography
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Hammond
Posts: 147
Alivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Alivia
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

This thread surely does create a lot of things to think about and take into consideration!

Does anyone think that there should be mandated rules as to who can sponsor and who should not be able to sponsor? (Either for FIRST as a whole, or individual teams, or both?) Why or why not?

[Example: FIRST Sponsor Rule #1: No team is allowed to be sponsored by an alcohol-related distributor.]
*keep in mind that this was just an example, not how I actually feel*

__________________
2004-2007 AND 2011-PRESENT: Team Hammond #71
2007-2011
Team 1720/PhyXTGears


To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe. -Anatole France
Reply With Quote
  #55   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 13:03
chris31 chris31 is offline
Team 2021 Captain
AKA: Chris Davidson
FRC #2021 (FA Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA/ Fredericksburg,VA
Posts: 949
chris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond reputechris31 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to chris31
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alivia View Post
This thread surely does create a lot of things to think about and take into consideration!

Does anyone think that there should be mandated rules as to who can sponsor and who should not be able to sponsor? (Either for FIRST as a whole, or individual teams, or both?) Why or why not?

[Example: FIRST Sponsor Rule #1: No team is allowed to be sponsored by an alcohol-related distributor.]
*keep in mind that this was just an example, not how I actually feel*

Personally, I dont think FIRST should limit who can sponsor teams. If a company wishes to sponsor a team I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to. It is not like we are dealing with pharmaceutical companies donating to politicians. I do not see any anything wrong with alcohol or any other company supporting a team as long as it does not promote illegal activities such as underage drinking.
Reply With Quote
  #56   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 15:16
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alivia View Post
Does anyone think that there should be mandated rules as to who can sponsor and who should not be able to sponsor? (Either for FIRST as a whole, or individual teams, or both?) Why or why not?
With only one or two exceptions it would be impossible to create a 'forbidden sponsor' list. Sort of like banning speech.

It is possible to build a negative image of nearly any legal sponsor on the planet. That sounds a little far fetched but I can list a many companies and products that has a list of enemies. Industrial food grid ? Bottled water ? The automobile ? Medicine ? Wood products ? You name it there is an anti-advocacy group.

The forbidden list - illegal activities - drug cartels, etc. Just like in contract law.
__________________
Ed Barker
Reply With Quote
  #57   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 15:18
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Another question that must be asked is; Does any Company actually want there product used illegally?

If you look at most (if not all) alcohol ads they say "please consume responsibly. Many of the negative actions in relation to alcohol are because of the consumer not the producer. The producer recomends how to use the product and who should use it but in the end it is the decision of the consumer.

And what about companies like Johnson and Johnson or BMS who make medication. These medicines when used by the wrong people can be just as deadly as Alcohol or Tabacco. Just because the market it with good intentions makes them different.

In my opinion Money is Money regardless of where it comes from if it is given to a good program with good intentions. First should not decline a companies offer to sponser First but instead they should control the usage of logos. IE; If Budweiser want to sponser First they must use a logo that discourages drinking rather than incouraging it.
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
Reply With Quote
  #58   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 15:30
Alivia's Avatar
Alivia Alivia is offline
Every moment is a Kodak one.
FRC #0071 (Team Hammond)
Team Role: Photography
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Hammond
Posts: 147
Alivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Alivia
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post

In my opinion Money is Money regardless of where it comes from if it is given to a good program with good intentions. First should not decline a companies offer to sponser First but instead they should control the usage of logos. IE; If Budweiser want to sponser First they must use a logo that discourages drinking rather than incouraging it.
I definitely think that's a valid point. I don't think people would be against having A-B or any other industry for that matter sponsor a team or FIRST if the logo they used was trying to convey the message that illegal activities are not cool. And that people should (forgive this cliche, but I really think it's true, especially in the FIRST program) "stay above the influence"!
__________________
2004-2007 AND 2011-PRESENT: Team Hammond #71
2007-2011
Team 1720/PhyXTGears


To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe. -Anatole France
Reply With Quote
  #59   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 18:53
Tottanka's Avatar
Tottanka Tottanka is offline
It isnt about bots,its about humans
AKA: Liron Gurvitz
FRC #3211 (The Y Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Hadera, Israel
Posts: 1,418
Tottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond reputeTottanka has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

So, is there anyway to get an official FIRST response on this issue?



Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post

Edit: I'm adding this in here above Alivia's post (#54). It's from the FIRST website, highlighting 3 of the FIRST sponsors and what some of their contributions to the FIRST mission are/have been:
http://www.usfirst.org/involved/spon...nt.aspx?id=210

This is the sponsor FAQ in the FIRST website:
http://www.usfirst.org/involved/spon...nt.aspx?id=214
It seems like those pages aren't up to date. The page of sponsors examples mentions IFI as an organiztion that leaded and supported the design and the develpment of the Vex platform, and the FVC.
We now know that FIRST for some reason decided to change it into FTC, and no longer work with IFI.
__________________
My FRC record: 10 Years,FTA (2008-9), 3 Teams(1947,2669,3211).3 RCA, 1 Championship EI(2016), 1 Divisional finalist (2016), 1 Regional winner.
Israeli 2016 Volunteer of the year.
Reply With Quote
  #60   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-08-2007, 19:55
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Should sponsors be held the same standards as teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tottanka View Post
So, is there anyway to get an official FIRST response on this issue?
If you are looking for a highly specific ruling I doubt you would get it. Life is like that. You could in theory make the ruling so narrow that all team members look alike, all teams look alike, all sponsors look alike. No innovation, one dimensional. I think the issues are too broad and complex.

I have a very old large farm. There are areas where families used to live a long time ago. If I dig up the site there are very few remains. A few buttons, nails, or bricks. Back in that day manufactured goods were very scarce. Most man made items were organic and returned to the earth. On other areas of the farm are more modern homesites. There are materials that will be here a long long time if not recycled. Most items do not return to the earth. Not robots, nor HDTVs, nor carburetors, nor anything else. Our view of the world is so normalized to what we see today, we can't see yesterday or tomorrow.

The world is complex and the answers impure. If we draw too narrow a definition of the type of companies and sponsors we will work with, then we will be like Gilligan, on a deserted island, no phone ,no lights, no motor car, not a single luxury.

ramble, ramble
__________________
Ed Barker

Last edited by ebarker : 25-08-2007 at 20:03.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should Sponsors ask to be recognized? Collmandoman General Forum 32 08-04-2005 16:18
Two Teams from the Same School? Anonymous Capt General Forum 14 05-05-2002 20:39


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:37.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi