Pledge of Allegiance Changed...

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Bill Gold

It’s typically considered “out of bounds” to liken people to Hitler, even if some people can see the analogy. It’s just inflammatory, and will most likely turn a few people off or piss a few people off. Talking about Hitler in a historical context (like when talking about WW2, etc.) is okay, though. I’m not saying anything about you or your ideas, Pavan. That was just for all people to take into account.

I'm saying that our country has had one major rule that has appealed to many foreigners that later settled here. It was freedom of religion and the government's duty to stay out of it.. Now I'll explain my Hitler analogy. Hitler did not meet the criteria of his 'perfect' race, yet he led them. He made rules but he said "you know what, I'm in charge so I'm exempt" similar to how Christianity is becoming in America. Although Christians settled America, THEY decided that there was going to write and preach separation between church and state. That said, now they (Christians) are pulling an Adolph, saying that our country's roots were this and that, when in all reality they wrote it but think they are exempt. Apologies to everyone Christian who is offended but this is exactly what is going on.

If you write rules, you must FOLLOW them [for any of you thinking about joining Congress one day].

Pavan.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Pavan

If you write rules, you must FOLLOW them [for any of you thinking about joining Congress one day]

Well, but in a way, isn't that the point?

There is a discussion going on in another thread regarding diversity.
Some thought is that it doesn't matter, all that matters is that in a team, the more qualified ones should be selected. Demographics shouldn't matter, ethnicity shouldn't matter.

But in this thread, the majority made the decisions when founding our country and the majority are the ones that continue to direct and implement the decisions.

Diversity does matter. It does. It is real and it should be acknowledged. One way to acknowledge it is to become organized and to identify the numbers and figure out who is out there and how it all fits together. There was a change in this century regarding civil rights and developing them. We still have a long way to go. From my point of view, non-believers have a long way to go in getting organized and developing a voice in matters that concern them. For example, on the team when making decisions, there have been one or two members who felt strongly about a direction or approach the team should take in a certain area. The team members who organized their thoughts, their materials and made a convincing presentation could impact the team and create change. The ones that didn't had their ideas ignored. In this society, one person can make a difference. It is how that person goes about it and what they want to do.

My children attended a small Catholic school at the time the state pledge requirement was implemented. The school always had a morning assembly where the national anthem, the national pledge, and the state pledge were sung and recited. This school was Pre K through 8th grade. A vast spectrum of development, growth, and understanding represented. At any point on that time line, if one or both of my children had approached me (I was present at the assemblies) and voiced concern about reciting the pledges, there would have been discussion, questions asked, more discussion - and if all of my questions were answered satisfactorily, I would have told the child to stand quietly and respectfully and I would have spoken to the administration regarding it. That never was an issue but it is what I would have done.

I'm thinking about Bill's thoughts as a 5th grader and younger. That is an area that could be brought to the attention of the elementary school level if it hasn't already been. That the students (and parents) in those grade levels should be told they have a choice. They are and have been studying American history and government at this point befitting their grade level.

Our American society is rich in cultural diversity, belief systems, and as reflected in CD, thoughtful intelligent people. More and more, that will be reflected in our political system and its process. If it isn't, then it is no one's fault but our own.

[Bill Gold]

Originally Posted by Pavan

I'm saying that our country has had one major rule that has appealed to many foreigners that later settled here. It was freedom of religion and the government's duty to stay out of it.. Now I'll explain my Hitler analogy. Hitler did not meet the criteria of his 'perfect' race, yet he led them. He made rules but he said "you know what, I'm in charge so I'm exempt" similar to how Christianity is becoming in America. Although Christians settled America, THEY decided that there was going to write and preach separation between church and state. That said, now they (Christians) are pulling an Adolph, saying that our country's roots were this and that, when in all reality they wrote it but think they are exempt. Apologies to everyone Christian who is offended but this is exactly what is going on.

If you write rules, you must FOLLOW them [for any of you thinking about joining Congress one day].

Pavan.

I didn't mean to say that I disagreed with your analogy. I just meant that there are other possible analogies out there that could be used instead of pulling the Hitler card, which as I said, is pretty inflammatory to a fair number of people. You've been doing a good job, just wanted to help out a little

Dan, I'd bet that the vast majority of the objections to abortion / same-sex marriage originated from religion. Neither of us has meaningful data on this, so it's pretty much useless for us to go back and forth about this. If people thought that those things were gross or wrong (non-believers) then quite likely they'd just be fine not doing it themselves, but if their God tells them they shouldn't do it then, usually, they feel as though they need to spread that restriction to everyone else in the world because they think us non-believers are either heathens or just misinformed. That's my point, religious people feel there needs to be legislation / constitutional amendments to impose their God's idea on the rest of us.

I may believe in "nothing," as you said, but it's still offensive to me to have other people force their ideals on me or look down on me for not sharing their beliefs. By caring about this, you haven't tricked me into believing in anything other than my freedom to be free of everyone else's religion, which I have here.

I'm here now, and when I'm dead I'll be dead. I can't do anything after I'm dead, just like I couldn't do anything before I was born, so I better have a good time while I'm here.

Hi Maddie. Long time no see in these threads. Remember those Tigerbolt days?