Appalachian State!!!!

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cory

I was at the Stanford-UCLA game, so I didn't get a chance to see this one, but they announced the final score over the stadium PA and everyone went nuts. Nobody could believe it.

Wonder what the over/under is on weeks before Lloyd Carr is fired?

Only if he loses to Ohio State.

[xzvrw2]

good thing i am a state fan
or i would be devistated.
henny is a horrible quarterback,
people were wondering what happened to the defence...
i know exactly were it went....
the draft.
hart is decent, hes not the best
like every one says he is.
it made me laugh
when my dad told me that score.
LETS GO STATE!! haha

[Lil' Lavery]

If they fire Lloyd Carr, they are insane. Lloyd Carr didn't make Brandon Minor fumble constantly, or kick it right into the hands of defenders twice. As a whole, Appalachian State may not be as talented as Michigan, but they proved that they had a couple players as fast (actually faster) than Michigan, and lined them up in a spread offense to utilize that speed. And I've seen enough West Virginia games to understand that speed+spread offense=points. And Michigan just didn't play well enough on offense (mainly with Brandon Minor, when Mike Hart came back they improved) to outscore App. State, especially when you factor in the two blocked field goals and two failed conversions.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

This just makes me wonder if Appy State is going to roll right through the D-1AA season. They win again, I think they may end up taking a D-1A spot next year... say, Buffalo. LOL.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah Johnson

This just makes me wonder if Appy State is going to roll right through the D-1AA season. They win again, I think they may end up taking a D-1A spot next year... say, Buffalo. LOL.

Aren't the divisions based on the size of the schools, not the success of the programs?

[Dan Richardson]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Aren't the divisions based on the size of the schools, not the success of the programs?

No, its not like high schools there are different criteria. There are many bigger D1AA schools than some D1A schools

[xzvrw2]

to go from D-II to D-I, yes, it is on size, but D-IAA to D-IA it is about skillz.
yes with a z.
and michigan will not fire a coach. they will not fire car, which is stupid.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Only if he loses to Ohio State.

I think he's gone at the end of the season regardless of what happens.

3 straight losses to OSU. 3 straight bowl game losses. He's been on the hot seat for awhile. His seat is now fiery.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Cory

I think he's gone at the end of the season regardless of what happens.

3 straight losses to OSU. 3 straight bowl game losses. He's been on the hot seat for awhile. His seat is now fiery.

I don't think anyone really knows if he's been on the hot seat, and I don't he has been. It may be getting warmer now, but it shouldn't be hot yet. Michigan was undefeated until their final game of the regular season last year. He's won more than 70% of his games in Michigan, won a national title, and multiple Big 10 titles. Firing him would be a mistake, and they certainly wouldn't find a better coach to replace him.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I don't think anyone really knows if he's been on the hot seat, and I don't he has been. It may be getting warmer now, but it shouldn't be hot yet. Michigan was undefeated until their final game of the regular season last year. He's won more than 70% of his games in Michigan, won a national title, and multiple Big 10 titles. Firing him would be a mistake, and they certainly wouldn't find a better coach to replace him.

The problem with your entire statement was that it was developed by a rational person (yourself).

This is what Joe Blow diehard Michigan fan would say, or more importantly what UM's big time boosters will say when they call up the Athletic Department pissed about losing to ASU.

"We haven't won a national championship in 10 years. Last year was our best shot and Lloyd Carr went and lost to the Buckeyes for the 3rd year in a row. Then we got pasted by USC in the Rose Bowl. The year before we lost to an average Nebraska team, and the year before that, we lost to Texas and the year before that we got our butts whooped by USC again. Now we go and lose to Appalachian State. A Division I-AA team. A team we were favored to beat by a million points. A team who had no business even being on the same field as ours. And we LOST to them. What are you going to do about it?"

That's what's going to happen. It doesn't matter how good of a coach Carr is, or how dumb it would be to fire him. Look at Larry Coker's career win percentage. It didn't help him any with keeping his job (granted Miami had all kinds of problems, but if Carr goes anywhere close to the 7-6 Coker did, they might as well be in the same situation).

[Dan Richardson]

Originally Posted by Cory

The problem with your entire statement was that it was developed by a rational person (yourself).

This is what Joe Blow diehard Michigan fan would say, or more importantly what UM's big time boosters will say when they call up the Athletic Department pissed about losing to ASU.

"We haven't won a national championship in 10 years. Last year was our best shot and Lloyd Carr went and lost to the Buckeyes for the 3rd year in a row. Then we got pasted by USC in the Rose Bowl. The year before we lost to an average Nebraska team, and the year before that, we lost to Texas and the year before that we got our butts whooped by USC again. Now we go and lose to Appalachian State. A Division I-AA team. A team we were favored to beat by a million points. A team who had no business even being on the same field as ours. And we LOST to them. What are you going to do about it?"

That's what's going to happen. It doesn't matter how good of a coach Carr is, or how dumb it would be to fire him. Look at Larry Coker's career win percentage. It didn't help him any with keeping his job (granted Miami had all kinds of problems, but if Carr goes anywhere close to the 7-6 Coker did, they might as well be in the same situation).

Exactly, college football definitely falls into the what have you done for me lately category, coaches can't rely on past success.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Originally Posted by Stud Man Dan

Exactly, college football definitely falls into the what have you done for me lately category, coaches can't rely on past success.

Which is why I'm all for replacing Philip Fulmer at Tennessee. No SEC Championship since 1998, when they won the National Championship. And on top of that, 2005 they had a losing record and lost to VANDERBILT. Who they hadn't lost to for 22 years.

[JackN]

Michigan won't fire him, which is stupid. The boosters and the AD love him, and he has the support of most of the people he needs. There has been a growing trend in fans however for a change at the top. That '97 team was built by Bo Schembechler and had what might be the greatest defense in college football history. Carr is a slightly above average coach, but he hasn't changed his game in years. They can't beat a running quarter-back and the going against any kind of speed on offense kills them. I still think they should win most of their games, I think a 9-3 record, with losses to Wisconsin and again to OSU killing them. I wouldn't be surprised if Oregon beats them though, they play that killer spread offense as well.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Originally Posted by JackN

Michigan won't fire him, which is stupid. The boosters and the AD love him, and he has the support of most of the people he needs. There has been a growing trend in fans however for a change at the top. That '97 team was built by Bo Schembechler and had what might be the greatest defense in college football history. Carr is a slightly above average coach, but he hasn't changed his game in years. They can't beat a running quarter-back and the going against any kind of speed on offense kills them. I still think they should win most of their games, I think a 9-3 record, with losses to Wisconsin and again to OSU killing them. I wouldn't be surprised if Oregon beats them though, they play that killer spread offense as well.

There's several things in common between Fulmer and Carr... mostly that they haven't changed their game in years. Makes me mad. The 1998 NC team was built by him, but that's it... they are a pro caliber player producing team, but they do nothing with the talent they recruit. I'm ready for a change at several schools.

I don't mean to change subject. I'm not a huge fan of Michigan, but I did think they were going to do great things this year.

[Lil' Lavery]

Even with a "What have you done recently" mentality, firing Carr would still be a poor choice. In the last 3 seasons, he has a 27-10 (.729) record, with two Rose Bowl appearances, including 11-2 last season. Two trips to the BCS, aka (usually) the Top 10 at regular season's end, is no laughing matter.
And patience is a virtue too seldom practiced, but rewarded in college football. Let's look at a coach with a similar problem a couple years ago. Mack Brown struggled to beat Oklahoma and win the Big 12. He lost 4 (maybe more) straight games to the Sooners, and couldn't even capture the Big 12 South. But then in 2005, he led Texas over the Sooners, and then over USC (and everyone else) and to a National Championship. And Mack Brown's career coaching record isn't even as good as Carr's (.650 winning %).
Ironically, Brown started his coaching career at...Appalachian State
Now Brown is only one of three coaches with 10 or more wins each of the past three seasons, Pete Carrol and Frank Beamer the others. And Beamer makes another suitable example. When he took over Virginia Tech it wasn't a national powerhouse, in fact, it was much closer to the other end of the spectrum. From 1987-1993 he only had two winning seasons. After his 2-8-1 mark in 1993, many wanted him fired, but VT was patient. In 1994, the Hokies went 9-3, beginning their streak of bowl appearances (the nations longest, currently at 14 consecutive years), winning seasons, and rise to the ranks of national powerhouse teams. As mentioned, they are now one of only three teams with three consecutive double-digit win seasons.

The bottom line is, Carr is one of the most successful coaches in the nation, and more than likely, the best coach possible for Michigan at this time. Appalachian State won that game more than Michigan lost it, especially in the second half, when they blocked the two field goals. Appalachian state has some talent, although the have nowhere near the depth of Michigan, and utilized that talent to the maximum. If anyone is to blame, it's Appalachian State, not Lloyd Carr.