Girls are still undermined?

[KenWittlief]

hey I played with dolls when I was a kid:

Major Matt Mason

GI Joe

Little green army guys

:^)

[Pat Chen]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

hey I played with dolls when I was a kid:

Major Matt Mason

GI Joe

Little green army guys

:^)

No crying dolls or Barbies, eh?

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Pat Chen

No crying dolls or Barbies, eh?

I used to disassemble crying dolls does that count?
My sister wasn't very happy about it.

[Pat Chen]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

I used to disassemble crying dolls does that count?
My sister wasn't very happy about it.

Disassembling... AH!....the launch pad to robotics.....take it apart to see how something works .....that is one of the fun part of having toys...but moms may not have agreed though.

[mechanicalbrain]

OK so being male I wanted to get an accurate opinion both from my perspective and that of a female at our school. We've concluded that to some extent is its due to both genders. Some males do have the mentality that girl and engineer do not compute. partially this is a regional and cultural aspect on the male side.

In our area she has not had any complaints in terms of this area however I went to a local Best buy and while I saw lots of girls working their none worked at the geek squad desk (just a simple example of a technical career). So this brings me to the duality of it all, females apply a limit to themselves also. Both personally and on other woman, though this isn't helped by the fact males tend be repelled by intelligent females (especially if they are smarter then the guy ). I know that our team has numerous girls (around 15) though we are a big team (79 kids).

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

However, I will take the other side of the fence for a minute, and say that most females are more creative and more organized than the guys. (Im NOT saying guys arent creative or organized, its just both a genetic & environmentally induced thing). And in the real world of engineering/business most top executives are male... this is generally from the motherly instinct. Society & nature has deamed the mothers the caregivers and the fathers the breadwinners. Its the same in many animals as well.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea the idea that woman are more creative or even better caregivers (im not saying that you are wrong but that its not even close to being a universal truth). Its too close to a blanket statement. I do agree that in many careers a man doesn't have to work as hard to succeed, but thats not entirely do to social prejudice. I would like to point out their are plenty of animals in the wild where the males are caregivers, seahorses come to mind. And I'm not sure thats even indicative of humanity. I think humans have diverged quite a bit from traits that animals posses enough that our nature is very unique in many cases, even where we have unique feelings like modesty.

In fact looking at my fellow students I think that something like creativity, organization, and basic instincts can be interchangeable as creativity seems to be equally devoid in both sexes in most of my classes (you should hear a literary discussion in English, its the only time where its quiet enough for me to sort all my thoughts ). To some factor genetics and bodily chemicals apply but only to a point.

Again as Ive said I believe this to be a regional thing, and this is all just an opinion based on what Ive viewed from my school and region and this all probably changes depending on where you are (which is why it's impossible to make a generalization unless you live everywhere) and what you do or have done. From the point of a large high school, in a wealthy area, in Virginia the social stigma is very rare and what of it that does exist is normally unconscious.

[BandChick]

Okay, I know this post hasn't been active in a while, but whatever.

It's my turn I guess to share a ...different perspective of 1089 from Carli's. There are things that I agree with that she said, but there are also many facets of the team that I think are sliding underneath her horizon.

Carli makes a good point in saying that the girls on 1089 aren't often taught about the engineering and tech facets of the team because of time constraints. Like Karthik said, it is a lot easier to pass off the responsibilities to the people that know what they're doing, but I think that often, it's because the girls haven't asked for that responsibility. Maybe that's because they don't know enough to perform it well, but that's another story.

I would like to see the girls learn more so they can be more involved, but I don't think it's appropriate for the girls to expect to be taught during the build season. Things are crazy and hectic as we all know, and though teaching is important, it isn't always the priority. Sure, we all know that a major part of FIRST is teaching and inspiring kids to get involved, that's the real reason I'm still attempting to mentor my team, but we have 52 weeks to teach and only 6 of those weeks to build and create and do the majority of pre-competition strategizing.

My first year on the team, 2003, I came in with basic tool knowledge (ie knowing the difference between a wrench and a hammer) and that was about it. I learned about gear ratios, sprocket & chain drive trains, pneumatics, torque, physics, center of gravity and a lot of other things. The point of this little anecdote is that I learned all these things because I pushed myself to be involved. I kept asking questions and asking to help.

A lot of the time our team will say "not right now" or "in a minute" and the girls will leave to do other tasks. The problem is, leaving the scene doesn't allow anyone to teach when they have the free time. It shouldn't and CAN'T be the responsibility of the robot tech committee to find the interested students and teach them, it should be the responsibility of the person who wants to learn to be there waiting.

Sure, there are other things that could be done in that wait period, but maybe bring them with you, or schedule them for another time. Sometimes waiting is inevitable, and if that's the functionality of our team, so be it. I don't believe anyone on our team has ever flat out REFUSED to teach anyone. We might not be the most efficient or productive team, but I don't believe we are being "unprofessional" or "ungracious" by not jumping at the drop of the hat to teach.

Sometimes the girls are undermined because of inappropriate comments. There are harassment issues on our team, yes, but those are slowly being dealt with (and I really hope getting better). I also think that a lot of what Carli is talking about is a personal issue with one or two specific members of our team, and not something to drag the entire team through the mud with.

Lastly, I don't think it's wrong to want to be more involved with the team, but I think it's important for Carli (and everyone else on our team) to realize they have other responsibilities. If Carli choses to chair a committee, then she needs to take care of those things before she worries about learning about the drive train, electronics, pneumatics, etc. A lot of the time Carli will ask a question and leave to work on her committee responsibilities. That to me says she does not have the appropriate time to learn from robot tech. I would say the same about anyone else on the team as well, myself included.

[Madison]

This is just a friendly reminder to avoid writing inappropriate remarks about others here on the forums. If someone is incorrect about a fact, by all means, correct them, but please be aware that there is very little about this thread that is unequivocally fact and it is important that we respect the potential for varying interpretations of certain circumstances.

I would say that most of the girls at my school are either to embarssed to join or just think its wierd for girls to be in robotics.I have tried to get my friends that are girls to join and i just got laughed at and the pictures in the trash can in little pieces. i figured it was stupid that they did that but oh well.

[Deacon Blues]

All the girls on our team have wanted to do PR work, and as head of PR that is fine with me. We do a lot of work and any help we can get is appreciated. I think it's awesome for women to take an interest at all in a male dominated field. It's a real problem if men are forcing them out of engineering aspects, but it's the same if you assume women should be taking more of an interest in building than PR.

[+()c|D]

Girls are as much of an asset to any team just as much as guys are (unless of course they freak out when they get coolent on their hands and run out of the shop ). But being serious, there is no difference with our team, there are girls that know how to machine way better than I do (the same with guys). If there are any teams that find girls to be less of an asset, I simply say that it would be a great idea to take a step back and give them a chance.

[sheltie234]

The boy to girl ratio on Cyber Blue this year is 6:5!!! I'm so happy that more girls at our school see that robotics is amazing!! And, we helped start an all girls team this summer!!

[Nathan]

Why are all these threads about girls being treated unfairly cropping up now?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Why are all these threads about girls being treated unfairly cropping up now?

I have a couple of thoughts about it. Nothing more than an opinion though.
School is back in session or getting back in session and that kind of triggers the begin cycle - enter, check in CD, see what's going on - and sometimes maybe often, if you are experiencing a problem or asking questions in your team about different aspects, you will search in CD and see if any threads have addressed the topic.

Girls on robotics teams is something that is discussed and sometimes it can be difficult to be a lone girl or a very small group of girls - so they search and find threads, post a thought and it goes from there. Maybe someone has a new thought they add or a new poster has never seen the thread and adds. This happens in all topics but sometimes at the beginning of school and the beginning of build season you will see some of these threads crop up. It isn't a bad thing, it is a good thing. For example, I get very excited when I see programming discussions. Programmers on many teams don't often have much time to get done what they want or need to so it is always good to see how teams address programming and what their thoughts are. It doesn't take away from the other aspects of the robot, just as the discussion of girls doesn't take away from the other members or aspects of the team. Discussion, communication, exploring topics is always good when done well and handled appropriately.

Just a thought.
Jane

[Arefin Bari]

It will be a miracle the day this world looks at Girls and guys on the same level in the "Engineering World."

Now my personal opinion (This maybe a little harsh and I will try to be as nice as possible about this topic):

Guys, women think a lot different than we do. If they have their mind set on something, they will keep working on it until they get it right or until they get it done the way they want it. If a girl wants to build the robot... let them. In my experience, I have mentored teams where the group consisted guys and girls and honestly, the girls I have worked with are heck of a lot dedicated than the guys I have worked with. I personally hate it when I see a girl get pushed away just because she is a "girl." I refuse to pass any knowledge onto any guy who refuses to work with a girl.

Solution? We can come up with as many as we want, but in this society of engineering where male are dominating, it's hard. It depends on individuals how they treat a woman.

[ebarker]

#1) I agree with Jane about traffic into CD rising at the beginning of school. I don't have access to the site analytics but personal observation sez things have upticked a good bit here with the beginning of school. And this is an long running thread.

#2) In my lifetime women have made dramatic inroads into law and medicine (and other fields). In the old days women didn't enter many fields because they essentially couldn't. Today, we are struggling to bring women participation in engineering and science on par with law and medicine.

I'm going to make a statement that would not have been 'PC' 35 years ago with the womens movement, but the normative woman and normative man are different and respond to a little different motivational career stimulus. Wow. It is important to understand the differences.

Last year we were 2/3 young women, and as of now the new team is almost perfectly 50/50. Using a combination of recommendations from something called the EWEP, our 'guest program', social networking, and working to make sure everyone gets a cookie things have managed to work out. So far, so good.

Nothing against the young men on our team, but without the young women we would not have achieved what we did last year. These young women have the focus and the drive to keep things on track and get done what needs to get done. It was truly a team effort.