Kettering Kickoff FILLS with 36 Teams

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by GeeForce

Hey you can see me in that picture

Does anyone know of any proposed rule changes for Kettering? i.e. lessened ramp bonuses or an auton bonus ala IRI?

What? Don't like us ramp/defense bots or something?

Originally Posted by Josh Murphy

So no bonus for autonomous? correct?

From my experience, I've noticed that the Kettering Kickoff has had a tendency not to change any of the major scoring rules or bonuses.


I do hope, if they plan on not doing serpentine draft as joeweber mentioned, they at least don't pit teams 1 and 8 against each other right away, they did that at IRI and it was essentially the strongest alliance VS the weakest alliance = Almost no chance of alliance 8 winning.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by cbale2000

I do hope, if they plan on not doing serpentine draft as joeweber mentioned, they at least don't pit teams 1 and 8 against each other right away, they did that at IRI and it was essentially the strongest alliance VS the weakest alliance = Almost no chance of alliance 8 winning.

That is kind of the point - if you have earned your position as Alliance 1 by getting the highest ranking, you are given the easiest path to the finals.

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

That is kind of the point - if you have earned your position as Alliance 1 by getting the highest ranking, you are given the easiest path to the finals.

Perhaps, but it should still be reletively fair to the other team (heck, in sports like football don't the worst teams typically get the first picks?; at least, I seem to recall it like that, I don't really watch sports that much so I'm not sure). The official FIRST games haven't used the old draft system for several years now, I'd have to think they have a good reason for it. Some place like IRI its probably not that big of an issue because of all of the great teams there, but at smaller events I could see the potential for the #1 seed to scoop up a few good teams, leaving the other alliences extreamely underpowered.

In my oppinion, getting first place in seeding should not be a neer automatic one way ticket to victory. The finals are a chance for any of the 8 alliences to come out on top, its not supposed to be easy for one of them.

If the #1 seeded team is that great, they should be able to pick a good allience without needing to go first on both rounds of selection.

[GaryVoshol]

Yes, sports teams that finish last in the division get the first pick in the draft - for next season. Teams that finish first in the division get things like home field advantage to help them in the playoffs. Also, you will usually see the top team against the "wildcard" team, similar to 1 vs 8. Heck, consider the NCAA tournament pairings.

I think the serpentine draft for alliances was a pretty good compromise to level out the competition. Whether the competition of the #1 alliance should or shouldn't be leveled is another question.

I wonder if anyone has done any analysis of upsets - 8 beats 1, 6 beats 3, etc - before and after the serpentine draft rule.

One thing to consider, is that sometimes the #1 seed is not the best robot at the competition. They may have been lucky in their alliance parings, gaining wins from their partners. Or maybe had luck with their competition - they won, but the opposing alliances also ran up high point totals to contribute to the ranking formula.

[J@GMFlint]

One very effective way of "leveling the field" at smaller events is to not let the top 8 pick from each other. I've seen that many times, and have to admit things get very interesting and good scouts are worth more than their weight in gold at these events in particular.

I do have to say, that the current selection rotation 1-8, 1-8, 8-1 does seem a bit peculiar and one I haven't personally seen in 7 yrs. But, we'll just have to see how it goes.

I'm sure it will be fun anyway!

[Bill_Hancoc]

haha, i keep hearing commercials for this on Banana1015, it says they will be broadcasting there.

[JackN]

Originally Posted by Bill_Hancoc

haha, i keep hearing commercials for this on Banana1015, it says they will be broadcasting there.

For those who aren't Michiganders/Kettering Kickoff faithful, Banana 101.5 is the local hard rock station, and they have been broadcasting from there from Kettering Kickoff for at least two years.

Also on the pick system, i think that 1-8, 1-8 is much better than 1-8 8-1. The old school draft (1-8 1-8) rewards teams that are successful, while the serpentine tends to screw the one seed. They get a great partner and an average partner. Deeper competitions like Kettering or IRI can support the old school draft. Look at IRI the winning alliance was not the #1, 2, or three, but the four. Look at IRI '06 even the finals were #5 v #6. Great strategy beats great robots any day of the week.

[Courtneyb1023]

One of the downfalls 1-8 8-1 system, is when the regional only has 24ish teams, the 1st place alliance team will likely have to pick the statistically worst robot. This is kind of unfair because in some cases where the last place team does not even have a working robot, thus 1st place alliance is left playing with only 2 robots. All of that hard work with little chance of victory. Just a thought.

Courtney

[Billfred]

<offtopic>

Spoiler for Click to read if you'd like.:

Originally Posted by Courtneyb1023

One of the downfalls 1-8 8-1 system, is when the regional only has 24ish teams, the 1st place alliance team will likely have to pick the statistically worst robot.

Not necessarily; just the one the other seven alliances didn't choose for whatever reason. (968 and a radio-problem-plagued 254 didn't seem to do so terrible at the 24-team Cal Games last year when 1516, which by that point was stuck doing defense due to a shooter malfunction, became their third partner by default.)

Just another point of data.

</offtopic>

[Mark Pierce]

Less than 48 hours until Kettering Kickoff 2007.

Team 85 is loaded and ready to go. I'm looking forward to watching these great teams, getting to know the new kids on our team, and seeing all those FIRST folks we haven't seen in a while. This is going to be fun!

[Grant Cox]

Originally Posted by cbale2000

I do hope, if they plan on not doing serpentine draft as joeweber mentioned, they at least don't pit teams 1 and 8 against each other right away, they did that at IRI and it was essentially the strongest alliance VS the weakest alliance = Almost no chance of alliance 8 winning.

You have to admit though, that number 8 alliance had a wicked strategy and put up a good fight.

Join me in a chorus of I can't wait for this weekend!!

[joeweber]

We bult the feild today, wired it tonight, bleachers and testing Friday. Best of all the weather looks great. Banna 101 will be live, we invited some local early tv news shows, hope they show up. We are looking forward to the Kettering Kick off and hope everybody has fun. If you need a drawing of the floor layout visit http://team1322.org/links.htm and scroll down a little.

[joeweber]

Kettering Kickoff VIII Tentative Agenda


7:00 A.M. Team Check in

7:00-8:00 Practice

8:00 Drivers Meeting on the playing field
(Mandatory attendance: 1 mentor and 2 drivers from each team)

8:30 Opening Ceremonies
National Anthem Chorus
(1 Representative from each team)

Color guard:
Junior Naval Reserve Officer Training
Flint Community Schools

Mike Robinson: Commandant
Bob Bruff: Master Chief
Shakari Thompson: Cadet
Brandie Helcher: Cadet
Tyhrann Howard: Cadet
Sean Russell: Cadet

9:15-Noon Seeding Matches

Noon-1:00 Lunch

1:00 Alliance Selection

2:00-3:00 Elimination Matches

3:30-5:00 Awards and Closing Ceremonies

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by joeweber

Kettering Kickoff VIII Tentative Agenda


7:00 A.M. Team Check in

7:00-8:00 Practice

8:00 Drivers Meeting on the playing field
(Mandatory attendance: 1 mentor and 2 drivers from each team)

8:30 Opening Ceremonies
National Anthem Chorus
(1 Representative from each team)

Color guard:
Junior Naval Reserve Officer Training
Flint Community Schools

Mike Robinson: Commandant
Bob Bruff: Master Chief
Shakari Thompson: Cadet
Brandie Helcher: Cadet
Tyhrann Howard: Cadet
Sean Russell: Cadet

9:15-Noon Seeding Matches

Noon-1:00 Lunch

1:00 Alliance Selection

2:00-3:00 Elimination Matches

3:30-5:00 Awards and Closing Ceremonies

Major changes to that agenda are needed!
2:45 is a little less time than is necessary for as few as four seeding matches per team.
The elimination matches will take at least 1:31, and could take up to 2:16.

[joeweber]

Kettering Kickoff VIII "Tentative Agenda"

This is a Tentative Agenda, times will change as the day progresses but it does give early start times and that is what is importent for teams showing up in the morning.