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Unread 23-06-2002, 21:53
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Re: Disqualifications

Posted by Jason, Coach on team #252/254, Bay Bombers/Cheesy Poofs, from Broadway High and NASA Ames.

Posted on 2/28/99 10:01 PM MST


In Reply to: Disqualifications posted by Dan on 2/27/99 4:22 PM MST:



: 2 separate disqualifications just happened at the CA regional. Both were in the elimination matches. One was an "unsportsmanlike conduct" call for intentional tipping (Gunn Robotics Team and Napa Crusher alliance I think) and the other was because a human player grabbed a floppy from their robot which in turn pulled the robot towards him - thus disqualifying the alliance. DQs are pretty stupid (but necessary), BOTH teams got no points but the disqualified team lost 0-0.
: Would this same situation occur in the qualifying matches? That would mean if my opponent was disqualified, I would get a score of zero with the mere incentive of a win (with no qualifying points). I'm pretty sure I'm wrong . .maybe they don't count that match for or against the team whose opponent was disqualified. :-Dan

I already posted some of this under the other forum, but it applies to
this discussion, so here it is again, with a little added.

In regards to the first disqualification, I agree it was a bad call. The
match where the human player for Monte Vista reached over the field, grabbed
a floppy in their robot and pulled the robot towards him, was a penalty.
My understanding was that they have flags and can give either warnings or
point penalties, or a disqualification. They (refs)didn't discuss or
decide the disqualification until after the match was over - it's not
like they just stopped the match. But what no one seems to be aware of
except for the teams in the match is this - The disqualification was
meaningless - the Monte Vista team had lost the match on points anyway.
FIRST should have recognized this - especially being the semis, and given
a warning or penalty or whatever they deemed appropriate. But by making
the match a 0-0 disqualification win, it made it look like the winning
team won because of the the refs decision, which was not the case. It
made the victory for that alliance (in that match at least) a little less
rewarding, because everyone would agree you would rather be recognized for
winning in a complete and fair match, not because of a refs decision if it
can be avoided.

On the other disqualification:

We just finished the Western Regional (NASA Ames) today - and the tipping
issue ended up being very important. we had a total of twelve matches
in the qualifying round (about 30 schools showed up)and 7 matches in the
playoffs - and were personally involved in 4 tippings, our robot being
tipped three times. I think our experience is important because it
showed every aspect of tipping.

Once we were totally responsible for tipping - driver and controller error.

Once we were fully extended over 8ft, but were unable to properly ground
ourself. However, we engaged another robot which was on the puck, it
turned to defend itself, rammed our robot, and tipped us over and out of
the field. As far as I'm concerned, even though it cost us a match, it
was legal and acceptable because we were engaging them and trying to gain
control of the puck.

Once, in the semi's, GUNN was on the puck and controlled it. We were unable
to latch onto the pole, so decided to back away from the puck and raise
our floppies. The robot on the puck waited until we extended, then moved
their arms under our basket, and intentionally tipped us over with 3
seconds left in the match (in a slow motion moment of agony, I don't
think our robot actually thumped to the floor until well after the match
had ended.) They were disqualified by the judges for unsportsmanlike
conduct. The reasoning was this:
they were on the puck & no longer trying to get on, we had backed off and
were not engaging them, we were no longer pushing the puck and neither was
GUNN, we were not controlling anything they would want, and there was
absolutely no threat to them or their position. So with the above
conditions, it was clear that there was ONLY ONE intention with their action
- to tip us. Also, if it matters, our alliance did have that match won
on points if they had not tipped us.

The officials said that was not in the spirit of the game and would not
and could not be allowed - because it would have set the standard so to
speak at the rest of the regionals after ours basically allowing
teams to batter and injure others.

Trust me, as with every team, we know our robot better than anyone.
If you watch the video, you will see that we (as we did in all
the playoff matches) backed away from the puck before raising and remained
in that spot. Some may have had their a bad angle, but we were not trying
to push the puck or engage the Gunn robot once we backed off and raised our
floppies. If we had been (knowing the risk of tipping) then we would
accept the tipping just as we did the other 2 times it happened to us with
no complaints.

It was unfortunate, because they are a great veteran team and throughout
the competition all of our best and most competitive matches involved
their team (both allied with us, and against us) Even before the playoffs
and everything, our two teams communicated a lot and they went out of
their way to answer any questions we had and/or help us. Our students
look up to and admire their team (they have actually been the model I
have used for the past 2 months as to what level our students should try
to reach within a year or so. We actually wanted to be in an alliance
with them in the playoffs, and would gladly be allied with Gunn in Florida
if we got the chance. They have a great robot and a great team!

After much thought and discussion, I really do think the refs made
the right call in each above case (the two decisions against us and
the two in our favor) I would love to hear other opinions about the
above situations. Difference of opinion is good. I don't fault anyone
who wants intentional tipping to be a part of the game (it is exciting
to watch). FIRST just said they didn't want it to be a part of this
year's game. Not ALL tipping, just 100% intentional tipping with no other
strategic purpose involved.

Also, in response to another reply, we did build a strong robot that can
take the fall. We fell 3 times form 9 feet high and were able to go
on each time. ( not that we weren't holding our breath each time)

Anyway, since we were part of the situation that has led to this
discussion in both forums, I just wanted to give my two cents worth.

Good Luck to everyone!!!!! We look forward to seeing
you all in Florida and hopefully getting to ally with as many of you
as possible.

Jason Morrella,


Broadway High
San Jose, CA


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