Go to Post There is no MILSPEC standard for pool noodles. - Rick TYler [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 02:28
cdennisxlx2's Avatar
cdennisxlx2 cdennisxlx2 is offline
Team San Diego Web Liaison
AKA: Cameron Dennis
FRC #1266 (The Devil Duckies)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 188
cdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to beholdcdennisxlx2 is a splendid one to behold
Lightbulb My teams electrical setup for 08...

this is a pic of a design idea one of my students did in inventor
__________________
Team San Diego Robotics Web Liaison
Webmaster and Technical Advisor for the San Diego Regional Planning Committee.
Official Score Keeper for the San Diego Regional
www.sandiegoregional.com
www.frc1266.com
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 07:18
Pavan Dave's Avatar
Pavan Dave Pavan Dave is offline
Busy in College
AKA: I am John Gault.
FRC #1745 (P-51 Mustangs) FRC #118 (Robonauts)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Richardson, Texas
Posts: 1,387
Pavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Pavan Dave
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Nice work. I like it. You may want to make it smaller though. There is a lot of "empty space" on the bottom plate. If you can remove that from the bottom [and top] you should be able to lose a few ounces. Also have you considered milling out the middle ring that attaches the speed controlers and spikes? We did this last year [something VERY similar] and it will save you weight but only if you have access to a mill. Also you might want plot out where your holes will be on Inventor and punch them, and then mill out large triangles to save some more weight. This can also be done on top.

Check out these links for more information and if you have any questions let me know. I'll try to post a picture or two of our middle ring that lets us put our speed controllers back to back.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28671
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28627

Pavan.
__________________
Times change. People change. Teams change.
---
2008-Present: FRC1745, P51-Mustangs - Mentor
2005-2008: FRC118, Robonauts - Alumni
National Director of Philanthropy - Delta Epsilon Psi Fraternity, Inc.
1745 - 118 - ΔΕΨ
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 07:45
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Cameron,
What a nice drawing! I normally caution teams on this type of electrical tray design. It is very difficult to troubleshoot and replace defective components. As always, secure the PWM cables near the device they control so that the connectors do not fall out during competition. If we are at the same event, please come and find me so you can show it off. Don't forget pictures when it is built.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 07:55
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,762
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Where's the big ugly heavy gray thing we've all come to love?
__________________
(since 2004)
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 08:01
AJ R's Avatar
AJ R AJ R is offline
RoboGeek
FRC #1714 (More Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 108
AJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to beholdAJ R is a splendid one to behold
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

It looks good! How close together are the components from each other? On our electronics board last year, the speed controllers and spikes were a half inch apart, and it was difficult to get the wires on without excessive bending of the wires.
__________________
AJ



If you loose the match and the robot doesn't come back broken, you didn't drive hard enough.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 13:05
Pavan Dave's Avatar
Pavan Dave Pavan Dave is offline
Busy in College
AKA: I am John Gault.
FRC #1745 (P-51 Mustangs) FRC #118 (Robonauts)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Richardson, Texas
Posts: 1,387
Pavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond reputePavan Dave has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Pavan Dave
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

An addition to what Al said, you might want to buy a couple of circular housings for your connectors.

It will make it more organized and if put a male/female to the analog PWM ports and a female/mail to the speed controllers etc., it will make life easier if you have to replace a specific speed controller down the line, a spike, or even the brain. It will make your life much simpler.

Also I suggest having a few "back-to-back" speed controllers ready so that you just have to pop out two-three screws and pop them back in with the new speed controllers and it wills save you the hassle of removing a speed controller and adding one on. I suggest having at least 1 of those arrangements [two speed controllers] for both spikes and victors because you never know when you'll need it.

~Pavan.
__________________
Times change. People change. Teams change.
---
2008-Present: FRC1745, P51-Mustangs - Mentor
2005-2008: FRC118, Robonauts - Alumni
National Director of Philanthropy - Delta Epsilon Psi Fraternity, Inc.
1745 - 118 - ΔΕΨ
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 14:21
JesseK's Avatar
JesseK JesseK is offline
Expert Flybot Crasher
FRC #1885 (ILITE)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 3,722
JesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Quote:
Also I suggest having a few "back-to-back" speed controllers ready so that you just have to pop out two-three screws and pop them back in with the new speed controllers and it wills save you the hassle of removing a speed controller and adding one on. I suggest having at least 1 of those arrangements [two speed controllers] for both spikes and victors because you never know when you'll need it.
This saved us much grief in Atlanta this year.
__________________

Drive Coach, 1885 (2007-present)
CAD Library Updated 5/1/16 - 2016 Curie/Carver Industrial Design Winner
GitHub
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 16:21
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,033
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
I normally caution teams on this type of electrical tray design. It is very difficult to troubleshoot and replace defective components.
Interesting that you mention this, and I agree...of all the design considerations on the electrical component layout, serviceability should be way up at the top. Unfortunately this means it usually ends up taking up a lot of area, and requires also designing the rest of the robot around access to the electronics panel. On the plus side, if you design the robot to be modular, then you can quickly remove whatever might be in the way of the panel, and this modularity can help in other ways. The 1726 robot for 2007 has a quickly removable mast/arm assembly, with a 25 pin connector for all the arm sensor wires, so there is no need to mess with the individual PWM cables when working on it.

It might be helpful to lay out the Spikes and Victors flat, in rows, with the terminals facing the sides, rather than facing each other. Or perhaps the Victors and power distribution components could be on a bottom panel, and have a top hinged panel for the components that use "small" wires, that can be quickly swung out of the way.

In any case, now is the time to be thinking about it and learning how to make the drawings in Inventor, so kudos to 1527!
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 20:28
Daniel Bathgate's Avatar
Daniel Bathgate Daniel Bathgate is offline
Registered User
AKA: blacklint
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Needham, MA
Posts: 79
Daniel Bathgate will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Daniel Bathgate
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ R View Post
It looks good! How close together are the components from each other? On our electronics board last year, the speed controllers and spikes were a half inch apart, and it was difficult to get the wires on without excessive bending of the wires.
This is definitely something you want to keep in mind. There needs to be a decent amount of space at the ends of the victors and spikes for the wires, especially depending on what is controlled and hence what gauge wire is used. We had some similar problems laying out our components in physical space - it's easy to forget about the wires and connectors when dealing with the neat little packages. And as squirrel said, putting the components together with their sides touching is a great way to save space - this is what we did when our failed pneumatically controlled arm had required 7 spikes to operate.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 21:18
K.Porter's Avatar
K.Porter K.Porter is offline
Not So Random!
FRC #0172 (FALGOR)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Gorham, Maine
Posts: 68
K.Porter will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to K.Porter Send a message via MSN to K.Porter
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

As the previous posters have said, think about the wiring a little bit more before committing to this design.
It might look good on paper, but just looking at your Spike relays, I'm seeing problems. If you're using the basic crimp on connectors to wire those, the connectors protrude from the connection point another centimeter or two, which will lead to some problems in the current design. You can solve this by rotating the relays all 90 degrees...but things will still be close.

A nice and compact design might look great on paper, but I know from experience what a mess wiring can make when you don't take it all into account. Nothing's worse for serviceability than a tangled mess of power and signal cables when you have to run them all in the same little space.

You might be able to make your current board layout work...but just make sure the components are facing the right way, so you can make the wires go where they need to without problems.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-10-2007, 22:41
DonRotolo's Avatar
DonRotolo DonRotolo is offline
Back to humble
FRC #0832
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 7,019
DonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

As already said, beautiful drawing, but once you try to wire it, you'll see that it won't work.

Also, there is an advantage to having the Victors vertical, cooling works better.

The euro connector looks nice & neat, but if you ever had to remove the board, it takes a lot of time to actually undo all those screws. A circular or sub-D connector is fine for signals, but for power you need to use something larger, like the 20/30/45 Amp Anderson Powerpole series (They are all the same connector, the only difference is the size of wire they can hold).

It is good that the Victors are covered a little, as metal shavings and other debris are major failure causes. Keeping wires short helps with weight, more than you think. I don't see a fuse panel, but there's room on the top, or underneath the bottom. Don't be afraid to drill holes for wires, either.

Don
__________________

I am N2IRZ - What's your callsign?
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-10-2007, 07:32
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My teams electrical setup for 08...

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Unfortunately this means it usually ends up taking up a lot of area, and requires also designing the rest of the robot around access to the electronics panel.
Jim,
There are alternate ways of laying out electrical. We rarely put all of our electrical components in the same area. The power wiring between battery, Victors and motors become shorter when they are placed in such a way in the robot that wiring is more or less straight lines. Think of a star burst with the battery and power distro in the center of the robot (for weight and balance) and then radiating out from there the Victors and motors. In many cases, the motor wires can be attached directly to the speed controllers, eliminating yet another set of connectors and therefore another point of failure. This approach also makes troubleshooting much easier. We also do not use hardware for mounting the speed controllers. Tywraps work great when using a punched aluminum panel for mounting everything.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to setup CNC for making dog gears sanddrag Technical Discussion 4 01-01-2005 23:21
Electrical Tips for Rookies Anne Shade Technical Discussion 15 03-12-2004 12:08
Quick disconnects for electrical gail OCCRA 1 25-10-2003 16:10
Electrical changes for 2003 Andy A. Electrical 3 05-01-2003 21:00
UTC Hartford and the Pits in 2001. The same setup for this year??? Elgin Clock Regional Competitions 3 01-11-2002 19:11


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:43.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi