BattleBots IQ vs. FRC

[Storcky]

For my English paper, I am comparing BBIQ to FRC. Has anyone been on a BBIQ team? Or can anyone provide insight to the differences?

Thank you for your help!
Storcky

[Lil' Lavery]

From my experience, there are many more people on this forum who have competed in the BEST competition than the BBIQ competition (at least in recent years). Perhaps you might have better luck if you compared BEST and FRC.

[Storcky]

I thought that BEST and FRC were very similar, but maybe I am wrong. I thought that these two provided the most contrast in robotics competitions.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Storcky

I thought that BEST and FRC were very similar, but maybe I am wrong. I thought that these two provided the most contrast in robotics competitions.

They are very similar in many aspects, but I was merely referring to the collection of data via Chief Delphi, not the entire report.

[EricH]

I seem to remember a thread about this very subject a few years ago. I think the topic was something about "Is BBIQ a threat to FIRST?" or something like that.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

BBIQ is a worse competition for several reasons:

1. The challenge is static. After 13+ years of BBIQ all the best designs have been explored and the robots have started to fall into the same boring categories (spinners, wedges, kinetic-energy disks, and hammers... ect.) Because FIRST changes every year the challenge stays interesting.

2. BBIQ is a judged competition. By this I mean BBIQ is not point based - in other words, judges determine who wins the match based on inflicted damage. Although it is sometimes obvious who the winner is, other times robots just ram into each other and the winner is somewhat arbitrarily determined.

B/c FIRST is point based it is always obvious who wins.

3. No Kit. Because of the KOP, all the robots in FIRST are roughly standardized - they all run on 12 v and use the same motors. But in BBIQ there is no kit. Some people pay ridiculous sums for high-powered electrical systems that not everyone can afford.

Notice that I never said anything about BBIQ being a worse competition b/c it doesn't have the goal of "inspiring science and technology." I'm sure BBIQ has inspired many students to pursue careers in these fields.

I base my opinions on my experience with the Combots and Sozbots competitions, which are almost the same as BBIQ.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Notice that I never said anything about BBIQ being a worse competition b/c it doesn't have the goal of "inspiring science and technology." I'm sure BBIQ has inspired many students to pursue careers in these fields.

I base my opinions on my experience with the Combots and Sozbots competitions, which are almost the same as BBIQ.

From what I've heard/seen there is a significant difference between regular combat robot competitions and BBIQ. Also, based on their website and from talking/listening to people that have been involved (a post I can't find from Keven Watson comes to mind) BBIQ seems to have the same goals as FIRST.


Either way (not talking about you Hachiban, so please don't be offended), I think people need to be less close minded. FIRST is not the only robotics organization that inspires kids. FIRST is my favorite, but I have also learned almost as much from combat robots as I have from FIRST. It's nice to work in an environment with less restrictions on materials and equipment.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by EricH

I seem to remember a thread about this very subject a few years ago. I think the topic was something about "Is BBIQ a threat to FIRST?" or something like that.

Here is a link to a post that was linked from another thread. Pavan brought this post to light in the thread linked. I think it is an amazing post by an amazing mentor, Natchez, of FRC 118. As you read it, take some time to think about what he is saying. You can also read the thread(s) this post is a part of.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=22

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Here is a link to a post that was linked from another thread. Pavan brought this post to light in the thread linked. I think it is an amazing post by an amazing mentor, Natchez, of FRC 118. As you read it, take some time to think about what he is saying. You can also read the thread(s) this post is a part of.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=22

That's the one I was thinking of. I have to say, I agree with Natchez. If I need to do a job, and I don't have the right tools, I'll improvise with what I have if possible.

[Smaug]

this is my third year in frc and i this will be my seccond year in battle bot type events. i enjoy both they are a lot of fun but i think i half to go with battle bots. in my opinion battle bots is more fun due to less annoying rules. but there both a blast and you should give it a try and find your own reasons because its all an opinion.

[Storcky]

Thank you for linking that thread. I searched for threads on BBIQ and FRC, but that didn't come up. The research I am doing for this paper is opening my eyes a lot. I didn't know that BBIQ was so involved and I think that my original bias against it has started to break down.

[Greg Needel]

Let me start by saying that your opinions are much better supported then normal arguments against BBIQ but some of your facts still need to be checked.

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

BBIQ is a worse competition for several reasons:

1. The challenge is static. After 13+ years of BBIQ all the best designs have been explored and the robots have started to fall into the same boring categories (spinners, wedges, kinetic-energy disks, and hammers... ect.) Because FIRST changes every year the challenge stays interesting.

Maybe most of the robots fall into these categories but there are always new types and implementations tried. What you are saying is the same as saying that all of the drivetrain possibilities in FIRST have been explored and now people are just copying each other. It is true in FIRST that most people use similar drive styles, but that doesn't stop teams from innovating. The same is true with BBIQ

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

2. BBIQ is a judged competition. By this I mean BBIQ is not point based - in other words, judges determine who wins the match based on inflicted damage. Although it is sometimes obvious who the winner is, other times robots just ram into each other and the winner is somewhat arbitrarily determined.

B/c FIRST is point based it is always obvious who wins.

I have judged BBIQ and it IS a point system, much like boxing. 3 Judges give points in 3 categories. Strategy, Aggression, and Damage. 9/10 times it is very obvious who wins the match and those other times they go to the scores which is done by experienced people.

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

3. No Kit. Because of the KOP, all the robots in FIRST are roughly standardized - they all run on 12 v and use the same motors. But in BBIQ there is no kit. Some people pay ridiculous sums for high-powered electrical systems that not everyone can afford.

While there is no KOP the sport has been normalized. There are motors which most teams in a weight class use, and the same goes for the controls, actuators, etc. If anything this make BBIQ more affordable then FIRST because you can use whatever you have lying around and build your robot to your budget and just because you have expensive components does not mean you are a lock to win the event.

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Notice that I never said anything about BBIQ being a worse competition b/c it doesn't have the goal of "inspiring science and technology." I'm sure BBIQ has inspired many students to pursue careers in these fields.

This is exactly the point. Now there actually is a difference that many BBIQ events are sponsored by tool and die organizations and are looking for skilled trades as well. For the most part both organizations do have the same ideals with the implementation just being a bit different.

Ultimately I don't think you can say that BBIQ is a worse competition than FIRST, it is just different. There are elements of both competitions which I prefer over the other and if I were to name my ideal competition it would probably be somewhere in the middle of the two.

[paul_v]

"Has anyone been on a BBIQ team? Or can anyone provide insight to the differences?"

-Yes, I have since the first one 5 years ago, before the team rule even existed!

I am also a very active team member of 190, I compete in both events all year.

Ask any specific questions and I can answer them for you.

To Greg, "I have judged BBIQ," where/when did you do this? I would not think this is correct, but I could be wrong.

-Paul Ventimiglia

[Storcky]

Does BBIQ have an official build season? Or can they constantly work on their robots?

[paul_v]

BBIQ teams have no official season. They can put as much effort in whenever they want. There is no such thing as the perfect robot, therefore teams are constantly designing, building and then re-designing.


-Paul Ventimiglia