2008 Regional Registration Progress

[Mark McLeod]

I'd go as high as 380 rookies if the "Price is Right."

Billfred's calculated 77% retention rate to-date is pretty close to the 80% retention at this same time last year. I think the retention rate in 2007 was actually ~95%, so I'll predict we'll see 95 veterans sit out this year.

[JohnBoucher]

Where do this years rookie number start?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Where do this years rookie number start?

The lowest-numbered 2008 rookie is team 2230 2330, J Adams Multimedia Productions & Fletcher High School. (The highest-numbered 2007 rookie was 2287, AEP, Texas/Houston Robotics (Bezos Foundation) & Sinton High School.)

It looks like FIRST is reserving fair number of numbers for future splits.

[DanDon]

Originally Posted by Billfred

The lowest-numbered 2008 rookie is team 2230, J Adams Multimedia Productions & Fletcher High School. (The highest-numbered 2007 rookie was 2287, AEP, Texas/Houston Robotics (Bezos Foundation) & Sinton High School.)

It looks like FIRST is reserving fair number of numbers for future splits.

You mean 2330? I believe 2230 is a second year team from Israel.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by dhoizner

You mean 2330? I believe 2230 is a second year team from Israel.

It's early and I'm still drying out from walking to class. (At least that's my excuse.)

2330 is correct.

[wilsonmw04]

what do you mean by: Future splits?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

what do you mean by: Future splits?

From http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=6632

3. Where multiple schools were combined into a single team, and that team now wants to separate into different teams, or any single team wants to separate into different teams, the new teams do not qualify as Rookies unless the requirements set forth above in 2 are met. These teams will need to register as a new team and contact FIRST at frcteams@usfirst.org for further instructions.

Historically, teams that undertake such things get a number of the same vintage as their original number. FRC 22 spun off 4, which first competed in 2006, 710 spun off 744 in 2006, 386 spun off 425 in 2007, and 340 fielded second team 424 in 2007. (I imagine there are other examples; these are just the ones I recall.)

[Billfred]

I've been working on a clean-sheet list, just to make sure any earlier errors weren't compounded, and it gave me a chance to note some numbers that have popped up as new or returning this season from the sub-2330 set:

53 Last seen playing Triple Play, now registered for Chesapeake.
509 Appears to be a spinoff team, given the lack of history. (This post seems to indicate they're descended from 501.) Headed for BAE.
566 Back after a season off, registered for SBPLI Long Island.
710 Also back after a season off, bound for Florida.
916 Looks like a spinoff, bound for Greater Kansas City.
972 Back from a year off, going to Silicon Valley.
1130 Like 53, last seen playing Triple Play. Bound for Oregon.
1378 Last seen in Vegas in 2005, this group of Hawaiians is bound for Oregon.
1531 Back from a one-year hiatus, going to Finger Lakes.
1988 Looks to be a spinoff, bound for Wisconsin.

Oh, and the magic number is now 289. The current retention rate is 77.8%.

[johnr]

question? if an event reads-0 pending-0 open capacity-that event is full until the december payment deadline.at that point, teams that don't pay get put on wait list. then it is a matter of getting your money in fast to get into said event. is that pretty much how it works? can you be paid and on wait list or just on wait list. is wait list available for viewing?
can you get bumped off second regional at anytime till you pay? i'm just alittle concerned that all the close by regionals are 0-0 or more pending then open capacity. does it seem regionals are filling up faster.thanks for your help.

[Mark McLeod]

The quick answer is if you really want to get in somewhere it's best to pay in advance. FIRST is also likely to be more accommodating if you do have to switch Regionals. I imagine they'll make room for you somewhere close if they have to.
There's no way to view the wait lists this year, nor a way to tell how many teams are cooling their heels on them. Only the Regional Director's are permitted to see the wait list. You could try taking one out to dinner and prying the information out of them. Even if it doesn't work the Director deserves the dinner.

Just so we're clear...

It's easier if you think of registration as involving three lists, in this order:
-- Team List = already in and guaranteed (either paid or it's your first Regional choice).
-- Wait List = paid (or first Regional choice), but waiting for additional slots to be opened up. In order of first registration or payment date.
-- Pending List = payment is pending (not an ordered list)

The use of "Pending" and the wait lists are somewhat complicated by how FIRST accepts teams as fully registered.

- first Regional
Everyone is automatically fully registered for their first Regional choice. Think of us as paid from the get-go for all intents and purposes even though we haven't written a check yet (and paid teams are not reflected by "Pending"). It's first-come though based on "Open Capacity" or rookie status. When "Open Capacity" is gone we go on the Regional "paid" wait list in the order we sign-up. FIRST has most Regionals reserve maybe double the number of slots anticipated for potential rookies, so unused slots will open up. The question always is "how many slots?" and "how many are ahead of us on the wait list?"

- second+ Regional & Championship
The "Pending" count only records teams that have signed-up for the Regional as a second+ choice (or Championships). Because, after the first Regional it's a "first-paid = first-registered" system, so payment is "Pending."
"Pending" doesn't reflect the number of teams already on the wait list for this Regional as a first choice or those who have already paid.

"Pending:0 Capacity:0"
means everyone who signed up for this Regional as their first-choice (payment isn't part of the equation in this one case) are either on the team list (Open Capacity # of teams plus rookies) or on the wait list for slots to be released. It also includes teams that registered as a second+ Regional AND who have paid.

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For example, if you registered today for Hawaii as a third Regional, you would be added to the Pending count. As soon as FIRST received your P.O. or check you would be moved to the wait list behind the other teams that registered as a first Regional and teams that paid before you. The Pending count would go down by one. Finally, when the remaining unclaimed rookie slots are opened up, you might get one, the Regional Director might decide to make all the pits a little smaller to squeeze you in, or FIRST will work with you to find you space in another Regional.

By the way, you can pay for your events in any order you choose. So you might want to pay for the iffy one first to get as high on the wait list as possible. For instance, my team's funding comes from several different sources and due to agreements about who pays for what we actually paid for our Championship slot first (moving us to the Team List), and a portion of our second Regional next. Since our first Regional is already guaranteed, we can wait for the payment deadline and not risk our spot.

[Richard Wallace]

Thanks for the explanation, Mark. It agrees with the way that I understand the FRC registration process.

I should hasten to add that my understanding is based on FIRST's published policies and on personal conversations with others involved in planning our regional events. It is NOT an official interpretation of FIRST registration policies -- even if I knew what those really are I probably would be barred by agreement from discussing them in a public forum.

[Bob Steele]

I was wondering if anyone knows why the "wait" list is being held secret this year? I know in the past it was always interesting to see who was coming to a regional.

I was also wondering if some type of informal list might be generated here on CD so that we could see what they intentions of other teams are.

I would not mind sharing our intentions here...
Perhaps this would be better in a different thread.. should we start one?

thanks
R

[Richard Wallace]

Several posts in other Regional Competition threads already indicate some teams' tentative plans. Plans are often fluid, while teams wait to see which regionals still have open spots after their funds have become available.

I agree it would be nice to know which teams are waitlisted for which events. Maybe FIRST is experimenting this year, to determine what effect that information had in previous years by withholding it now. Or maybe someone just forgot ....

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I was wondering if anyone knows why the "wait" list is being held secret this year? I know in the past it was always interesting to see who was coming to a regional.

We got that too (this came directly from FIRST):

A team's position on a wait list depends on many different factors and we do not disclose to teams where they stand on a wait list.

From what I understand (and this is from Regional directors & Senior mentors, NOT Directly from FIRST so take it for what its worth), the waitlists are being held secret because its not done on a first come first served basis. There are a few factors (perhaps beyond what Mark mentions here) that can get you moved around on the waitlist. What I heard is things like availability of other venues, age of the team and a few other things may play as factors. I think FIRST is reserving the right to decide now, and they dont want people to complain if they see the waitlist and someone else makes it in before them.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

If my count is in the neighborhood, 68 vets didn't re-register in 2007,...

FYI
My earlier statement was in error. I see that 112 teams went missing in 2007 for an ~91% retention rate this past season.

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The Regional Directors do have a difficult time of making sure there's room for local teams that cannot afford to go anywhere else, especially teams in Israel, Brazil, Hawaii who are far from alternate Regionals. Directors do have a regional focus for developing, maintaining, and expanding FIRST programs. Even veteran teams are affected periodically by advisor/administration/sponsor turnover that delays their registration and restricts their attendance at away Regionals. For instance, even under normal circumstances some teams have a long wait for School Board approval before they can register.

I don't imagine there are a lot of teams turned away though, but that may be due more to limiting expectations via "Open Capacity" as a way of discouraging too great a flood of teams into any one Regional, or otherwise convincing teams to reapply elsewhere. The Directors I know always work to accommodate everyone possible, but of course venue space limits exist. On Long Island we've had a team or two from off-island jump in at the last minute and the Director's been able to make room, but if five teams tried that some would have to be turned away.

I could see how a team that registers elsewhere first, instead of at their local regional might end up lower on the wait list than a neighboring team that can only afford one local Regional.