2007 NFL Pick-em: Week 9

[Kyle379]

Sunday:
Cincinnati at Buffalo
San Francisco at Atlanta
Denver at Detroit
Green Bay at Kansas City
San Diego at Minnesota
Jacksonville at New Orleans
Washington at New York Jets
Carolina at Tennessee
Arizona at Tampa Bay
Seattle at Cleveland
Houston at Oakland
New England at Indianapolis
Dallas at Philadelphia

Monday:
Baltimore at Pittsburgh

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Kyle

So it seems people think that Indy is going to win over the Pats this weekend.
From watching the Pats play they have had no difficulties against any team so far this year, but Indy has had to fight for every W they have so far, its going to be Pats all the way this year.

You didn't watch the Cleveland-New England game did you?

Having absolutely "no" difficulties is a mischaracterization of that particular game.

Cleveland gave them quite a test. Four Cleveland turnovers, most self-imposed, hurt Cleveland more than New England hurt them.

Derek Anderson threw an endzone INT deep in New England territory as the Browns were driving for an early TD that would have given them the lead.

Kellen Winslow fumble was returned for a TD with less than a minute left to pad New England's score by 7 after the Browns narrowed it (again) to a 10 point deficit.

Cleveland was the first team to hold New England scoreless for a quarter.

Cleveland was the first team not to give up a TD to the Patriots on their opening drive.

Cleveland held the Patriots to 3 offensive TD's, undoubtedly their lowest total of the year to date.

Cleveland racked up 353 yards of offense despite the turnovers.

Cleveland only lost the time of possession battle by 5 minutes.

And this was IN New England.

Really the difference in the game was the Browns turnovers. The Browns cut the lead to 10 points twice in the 2nd half. The game could easily have swung the other way had the Browns protected the ball. The Browns had the New England crowd out of it for much of the game. In the end, the superior talent of the Patriots won out, but it was FAR from a cakewalk, and it is evidence that the Browns are a team that should NOT be taken lightly.


All that being said, go Colts.

Sunday:
Cincinnatiat Buffalo
San Francisco at Atlanta
Denverat Detroit
Green Bay at Kansas City
San Diego at Minnesota
Jacksonvilleat New Orleans
Washington at New York Jets
Carolina at Tennessee
Arizona at Tampa Bay
Seattle at Cleveland - Win at least 2 of 3 against Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and I'll believe you're for real. Til then, stop with the penalties, play defense, and keep your helmets on. And keep being one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the league.
Houston at Oakland
New England at Indianapolis - Boston fans need some bad sports news to prevent excessive cranial expansion. Hopefully compounded by Boston College losing and the Celtics tanking....
Dallas at Philadelphia

Monday:
Baltimore at Pittsburgh - It pains me to do this. I'd be ecstatic if I were wrong.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

You didn't watch the Cleveland-New England game did you?

Having absolutely "no" difficulties is a mischaracterization of that particular game.

Cleveland gave them quite a test. Four Cleveland turnovers, most self-imposed, hurt Cleveland more than New England hurt them.

Derek Anderson threw an endzone INT deep in New England territory as the Browns were driving for an early TD that would have given them the lead.

Kellen Winslow fumble was returned for a TD with less than a minute left to pad New England's score by 7 after the Browns narrowed it (again) to a 10 point deficit.

Cleveland was the first team to hold New England scoreless for a quarter.

Cleveland was the first team not to give up a TD to the Patriots on their opening drive.

Cleveland held the Patriots to 3 offensive TD's, undoubtedly their lowest total of the year to date.

Cleveland racked up 353 yards of offense despite the turnovers.

Cleveland only lost the time of possession battle by 5 minutes.

And this was IN New England.

Really the difference in the game was the Browns turnovers. The Browns cut the lead to 10 points twice in the 2nd half. The game could easily have swung the other way had the Browns protected the ball. The Browns had the New England crowd out of it for much of the game. In the end, the superior talent of the Patriots won out, but it was FAR from a cakewalk, and it is evidence that the Browns are a team that should NOT be taken lightly.

Ill admit, that if the colts and Patriots were not 8-0, the browns would be the number 2 team (behind the cowboys, not counting pats/colts) But the patriots also RAN the ball more times than they actually caught the ball. And the QB's had the same amount of completions. The QB is pretty much half of the team and the fact that the QB failed to do his job the best is a reason why the patriots won. Brady has very little if any mistakes this year, which is why they havnt lost. The patriots have outscored the opponents with 43 touchdowns to 16. If the opponents play a bad game then so be it, but the patriots know how to capitalize. Its like the lions, 2 of their wins come from the other team not finishing up at the end. I like the browns, but the patriots are the better team this year and they are gonna beat the colts by 13 (just a guess)

[Logan Byers]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

Ill admit, that if the colts and Patriots were not 8-0, the browns would be the number 2 team (behind the cowboys, not counting pats/colts) But the patriots also RAN the ball more times than they actually caught the ball. And the QB's had the same amount of completions. The QB is pretty much half of the team and the fact that the QB failed to do his job the best is a reason why the patriots won. Brady has very little if any mistakes this year, which is why they havnt lost. The patriots have outscored the opponents with 43 touchdowns to 16. If the opponents play a bad game then so be it, but the patriots know how to capitalize. Its like the lions, 2 of their wins come from the other team not finishing up at the end. I like the browns, but the patriots are the better team this year and they are gonna beat the colts by 13 (just a guess)

I mean no disrespect, but the Cleveland Browns #4 (counting the Pats and Colts) in the NFL? Yeah, Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, and Kellen Winslow are doing great, but number 4? Better than the Steelers (my pick for #3 in NFL)? Better than the Chargers (#4)? Better than the Giants (#6)? Better than the Packers (#7)? Those teams have some play-makers on Defense, but I don't see anyone on the Browns D that is a true play-maker. Their defense, as a unit, ranks in the bottom 5 in points against and yards allowed (in total, rushing, and receiving). It's a good thing that their offense can keep up. But look at the Colts before 2006, the offense can only carry the team so far.

As for my 2 cents about the Patriots vs. Colts game:
I'm a Colts fan, but I live in New England (New Hampshire to be specific) and I get to watch the Patriots more than I do the Colts. And after watching them play, I just don't see how any team in the league can stop the combination of Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and Wes Welker. If you watched the Miami game, it was absurd how good Randy Moss was. Granted it was Miami they were playing, but all Brady had to do was throw in the general direction of Moss and it was a TD. Moss has earned the right to be called by his old nickname: "Freak". And Wes reminds me of Brandon Stokley, but more elusive and tougher.
Obviously, the Colts still have Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai, and (maybe) Marvin Harrison on the offensive side of the ball. Bob Sanders is a beast on defense and, even though he's not sacking the QB as much as he used to, Freeney is still a key to that defense, which is in the top 5 in points allowed, total yards against, and receiving yards against. I believe that gives the Colts the best chance of anyone to beat (or at least keep pace with) the Patriots. The only way that I can see the Colts winning is if they are able to get to Tom Brady before he can get the ball to Moss or Welker. But even that might not help. in the Dallas game, the Cowboys were able to do that for the first half, and the Pats still scored 21 points on them.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by 461gopher

I mean no disrespect, but the Cleveland Browns #4 (counting the Pats and Colts) in the NFL? Yeah, Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, and Kellen Winslow are doing great, but number 4? Better than the Steelers (my pick for #3 in NFL)? Better than the Chargers (#4)? Better than the Giants (#6)? Better than the Packers (#7)? Those teams have some play-makers on Defense, but I don't see anyone on the Browns D that is a true play-maker. Their defense, as a unit, ranks in the bottom 5 in points against and yards allowed (in total, rushing, and receiving). It's a good thing that their offense can keep up. But look at the Colts before 2006, the offense can only carry the team so far.

The funny thing is the defense was much, much better last year while the offense was horrid.

Leigh Bodden is a playmaker. If a few of his brethren (Kamerion Wimbley, where art thou?) could couple a legitimate pass rush with his ball-hawking abilities, they'd have something.

Some people are actually ranking the Browns around 10th.

Drop those Stealers a bit more. Overrated. I'd put the Chargers and Giants ahead of them. This should start something. Cue A_Reed and Kyle379. :-)

[Logan Byers]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

The funny thing is the defense was much, much better last year while the offense was horrid.

Leigh Bodden is a playmaker. If a few of his brethren (Kamerion Wimbley, where art thou?) could couple a legitimate pass rush with his ball-hawking abilities, they'd have something.

Some people are actually ranking the Browns around 10th.

Drop those Stealers a bit more. Overrated. I'd put the Chargers and Giants ahead of them. This should start something. Cue A_Reed and Kyle379. :-)

Ok... I can compromise on where to rank the Steelers, losing to the Cardinals was unacceptable.
But the Browns 10th as a team or defensively?
I doubt it's defensively, here are their stats (via NFL.com):
270 yards/game passing (2nd worst to the Vikings)
139 yards/game rushing (4th worst to the Broncos, Dolphins, and Raiders)
410 yards/game overall (THE worst in the NFL)
Turnover ratio of -3

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by 461gopher

Ok... I can compromise on where to rank the Steelers, losing to the Cardinals was unacceptable.
But the Browns 10th as a team or defensively?
I doubt it's defensively, here are their stats (via NFL.com):
270 yards/game passing (2nd worst to the Vikings)
139 yards/game rushing (4th worst to the Broncos, Dolphins, and Raiders)
410 yards/game overall (THE worst in the NFL)
Turnover ratio of -3

That was 10th overall.

I'm a bottom line kind of guy - who cares how many yards they give up? The game is won and lost by the points on the board. How do they rank in scoring defense? Hey, they're only 3rd worst there wooo. Bend but don't break, baby.

And in the end all that matters is you score more than the other guy, so I'll take those 41-31 and 51-45 and 27-20 and 27-13 wins, thank you very much. I'll also give up a 26-24 loss that only ended up as such because the potential game-ending game winning field goal was blocked (after a successful "Shanahan Timeout Maneuver" by Oakland which negated the original successful kick), a 34-7 loss with a lame duck former Brown as the starting QB in the home opener, and a 34-17 loss at New England which I actually characterize as a success relative to the rest of the league who's faced them up to this point.

Just win, baby!

[Logan Byers]

I'll concede that, Travis. the stats don't matter as much as the wins and losses.
However, come playoff time, I don't expect the Browns to come close to winning against the likes of San Diego, Pittsburgh, New England, or Indianapolis. Saying that they're better than or as good as San Diego or Pittsburgh is a mistake, in my opinion.
But there is a reason why the play the games i guess...

[Kyle379]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

Drop those Stealers a bit more. Overrated. I'd put the Chargers and Giants ahead of them. This should start something. Cue A_Reed and Kyle379. :-)

O Travis . . . The Brownies win two in a row for the first time since 2003 and you start talking. Lets just wait until November 11th to see how much the Browns have improved since week 1. If the Steelers beat the Ravens on Monday, the next week (Steelers vs. Browns) takes on a whole new meaning. But until then Travis, I say the Steelers are still better than the Browns so HAHA!

Do you honestly think the Giants are better than the Steelers, they're in the NFC !

[SSMike]

Originally Posted by Kyle379

O Travis . . . The Brownies win two in a row for the first time since 2003 and you start talking. Lets just wait until November 11th to see how much the Browns have improved since week 1. If the Steelers beat the Ravens on Monday, the next week (Steelers vs. Browns) takes on a whole new meaning. But until then Travis, I say the Steelers are still better than the Browns so HAHA!

I have to agree there. The Browns aren't bad but compared to the Steelers, its no match up. Neither team's D is amazing and both pretty equal WRs. Ultimately it comes down to the QBs and I'd take Roethlisberger over Brady Quinn any day!

Originally Posted by Kyle379

Do you honestly think the Giants are better than the Steelers, they're in the NFC !

I resent that. While the NFC is as good as the AFC, they are not terrible. The Cowboys, The Packers, and the Giants could easily be ranked in the top 10 overall. As A Packers Fan I'll be the first to admit that they wouldn't stand a chance against a team like the Pats or Indy but Any other team in the NFL, I think they could beat. As for the G-men, they are just on a roll (Not better than Pitt though), but still I don't know how you can almost lose to Miami!

[A_Reed]

Originally Posted by SSMike

I have to agree there. The Browns aren't bad but compared to the Steelers, its no match up. Neither team's D is amazing and both pretty equal WRs. Ultimately it comes down to the QBs and I'd take Roethlisberger over Brady Quinn any day!


I resent that. While the NFC is as good as the AFC, they are not terrible. The Cowboys, The Packers, and the Giants could easily be ranked in the top 10 overall. As A Packers Fan I'll be the first to admit that they wouldn't stand a chance against a team like the Pats or Indy but Any other team in the NFL, I think they could beat. As for the G-men, they are just on a roll (Not better than Pitt though), but still I don't know how you can almost lose to Miami!

1.) The Steelers 'D' is statistically at least in the top 5 of every defensive rank.

Pts/G: 13(1st) TotPts: 91(1st) TotYds: 1798(1st) Yd/G: 256.9(1st) Rush: 544(4th) RYd/G: 77.7(4th) Pass:1254(3rd) PYd/G: 179.1(4th)

2.) Quinn is not the Starter for the Cleveland Clowns, it is Derek Anderson.

[Dolan]

I`m a Browns fan and to me I don`t care how good you say they are when its the Steelers the Browns can always find a way to win because upsets are a big part of football.

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

You didn't watch the Cleveland-New England game did you?

Having absolutely "no" difficulties is a mischaracterization of that particular game.

Cleveland gave them quite a test. Four Cleveland turnovers, most self-imposed, hurt Cleveland more than New England hurt them.

Derek Anderson threw an endzone INT deep in New England territory as the Browns were driving for an early TD that would have given them the lead.

Kellen Winslow fumble was returned for a TD with less than a minute left to pad New England's score by 7 after the Browns narrowed it (again) to a 10 point deficit.

Cleveland was the first team to hold New England scoreless for a quarter.

Cleveland was the first team not to give up a TD to the Patriots on their opening drive.

Cleveland held the Patriots to 3 offensive TD's, undoubtedly their lowest total of the year to date.

Cleveland racked up 353 yards of offense despite the turnovers.

Cleveland only lost the time of possession battle by 5 minutes.

And this was IN New England.

Really the difference in the game was the Browns turnovers. The Browns cut the lead to 10 points twice in the 2nd half. The game could easily have swung the other way had the Browns protected the ball. The Browns had the New England crowd out of it for much of the game. In the end, the superior talent of the Patriots won out, but it was FAR from a cakewalk, and it is evidence that the Browns are a team that should NOT be taken lightly.


All that being said, go Colts.

Sunday:
Cincinnatiat Buffalo
San Francisco at Atlanta
Denverat Detroit
Green Bay at Kansas City
San Diego at Minnesota
Jacksonvilleat New Orleans
Washington at New York Jets
Carolina at Tennessee
Arizona at Tampa Bay
Seattle at Cleveland - Win at least 2 of 3 against Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and I'll believe you're for real. Til then, stop with the penalties, play defense, and keep your helmets on. And keep being one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the league.
Houston at Oakland
New England at Indianapolis - Boston fans need some bad sports news to prevent excessive cranial expansion. Hopefully compounded by Boston College losing and the Celtics tanking....
Dallas at Philadelphia

Monday:
Baltimore at Pittsburgh - It pains me to do this. I'd be ecstatic if I were wrong.

Travis,

Sorry to say this but it sounds like your judgment is clouded by the fact that Boston won the world series.

Get serious. Colts don't stand a chance and you know it. And there is no payroll issue involved here.

[Cory]

Sunday:
Cincinnati at Buffalo
San Francisco at Atlanta
Denver at Detroit
Green Bay at Kansas City
San Diego at Minnesota
Jacksonville at New Orleans
Washington at New York Jets
Carolina at Tennessee
Arizona at Tampa Bay
Seattle at Cleveland
Houston at Oakland
New England at Indianapolis
Dallas at Philadelphia

Monday:
Baltimore at Pittsburgh

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Kyle379

O Travis . . . The Brownies win two in a row for the first time since 2003 and you start talking. Lets just wait until November 11th to see how much the Browns have improved since week 1. If the Steelers beat the Ravens on Monday, the next week (Steelers vs. Browns) takes on a whole new meaning. But until then Travis, I say the Steelers are still better than the Browns so HAHA!

Context clues - did they teach reading comprehension over at Girard, young sir? I never once said the Browns were better than the Stealers. But perhaps deep inside your tortured Stealer fan soul, though, you secretly fear the Browns? If you were truly confident in your team's abilities, why would you even give the Browns the argumentative light of day above? Perhaps you are afraidddddddddd?

I just think it's an inferiority complex created by the Colts and Patriots....and perhaps losing to a Broncos team that just tanked against one of your self-described lame NFC teams. Hmm....

Dr. Hoffman has spoken.