**FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Raul

If a team is originally assigned to that match, their green token takes priority over fill-in team’s green token. However, if they ran out of green tokens, then a fill-in team with a green token would have priority over them, since that would indicate that they already had their allotment of 3 matches. This would give teams who could not run early, a better chance of getting in some practice matches later. Fair – right?

I think this would break down in certain cases. For example, if I'm in the first match of the day, and there's obviously no one else waiting to fill-in, I'll use my red token and get in anyway. If lots of teams do this (using the red and yellow at opportune moments when you know it won't be overridden), then won't you end up with a whole bunch of teams with green tokens at the end of the day but not enough practice slots to go around?

Who "wins" if there's multiple teams with green tokens to fill-in? Is it then based on first-come-first-serve?

[Billfred]

Suppose we tap into the field and its love of scheduling to use it as a starting point.

Teams receive a practice match schedule Thursday morning as before. This time, however, teams can trade matches; to do it, a member of both teams' drive teams would come to pit admin. If teams can settle one-to-one trades by themselves, it reduces the need for any fill-ins. I don't know if giving away matches would be allowed; I'll leave it alone for now.

From there, we fill any other openings in two lines:

The Really Official Field Line (or ROFL) is open to teams who have passed inspection in full. Along with their dot for passing, the team receives two passes to the ROFL, to be enforced by the Really Official Field Line Chief Operations Protection and Traffic Enforcement Runner (or ROFLCOPTER).

The Limited Matches And Openings (or LMAO) line is open to all teams, including ROFL teams who either have exhausted their passes or are saving them for later. Teams in the LMAO line are admitted after any teams in the ROFL line. (To be in either line, the robot must physically be there.)

Teams get a nice incentive for passing inspection early, but not a ginormous one that shuts others out.

[Richard Wallace]

Every team who wants to practice must either be ROFL or LMAO? I like it.

[GaryVoshol]

I've worked queing at a tournament, and the first thing we need to do is keep this simple. No multicolo(u)red tokens - how much you think a green token would go for on the black market? No inconprehensible acronyms.

There are times when only 1 robot shows up for a practice match. (Including one memorable time when a human player on the no-robot alliance scored the only points in the match.) It's a shame wasting that field space. Other times we were able to combine two matches into one, and get back on schedule - a definite plus.

Recognizing that one team's biggest need is time in the pits, while another team's need is driver practice, why not let the open spots in a match be filled with those who want extra practice sessions?

If there has to be a limit on it, have the lead que keep track of fill-in teams. No team may have more than 3 extra sessions.

If there is a desire to have a link between inspection and practice, make it so that a team must begin inspection before they can use their second extra practice, and must finish it before their 3rd. That would be easy enough for the queing crew to track.

[Richard Wallace]

The practice match poll thread on the FIRST Forum is now open for team representatives who are logged in as FRC<nnnn> to post feedback for FIRST staff to read. Since those folks are rather busy (especially so this time of year!) it is much easier for them to monitor the FIRST Forum than this one.

So please, if you have a comment or suggestion on your team's behalf, post it at http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...2275#post12275 or ask your team's official representative to do so.

[Raul]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I think this would break down in certain cases. For example, if I'm in the first match of the day, and there's obviously no one else waiting to fill-in, I'll use my red token and get in anyway. If lots of teams do this (using the red and yellow at opportune moments when you know it won't be overridden), then won't you end up with a whole bunch of teams with green tokens at the end of the day but not enough practice slots to go around?

Who "wins" if there's multiple teams with green tokens to fill-in? Is it then based on first-come-first-serve?

Regarding your example, using the red and yellow can only be done when fully inspected. So, this is not going to happen early as much as you think.
Regarding tie breakers, it has to be first-come-first-served. It would be this way if you did not have tokens. But with the tokens, it should happen a lot less often and eliminate much of the chaos.

[Raul]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

I've worked queing at a tournament, and the first thing we need to do is keep this simple. No multicolo(u)red tokens - how much you think a green token would go for on the black market? No inconprehensible acronyms.

There are times when only 1 robot shows up for a practice match. (Including one memorable time when a human player on the no-robot alliance scored the only points in the match.) It's a shame wasting that field space. Other times we were able to combine two matches into one, and get back on schedule - a definite plus.

Recognizing that one team's biggest need is time in the pits, while another team's need is driver practice, why not let the open spots in a match be filled with those who want extra practice sessions?

If there has to be a limit on it, have the lead que keep track of fill-in teams. No team may have more than 3 extra sessions.

If there is a desire to have a link between inspection and practice, make it so that a team must begin inspection before they can use their second extra practice, and must finish it before their 3rd. That would be easy enough for the queing crew to track.

OK, simple is often better, but I think in this case it = chaos.
Tokens or some other method of enforcing priorities has to be used or it will be chaotic.

And, I am not sure whether it is good or bad for teams to give other teams a green token. Maybe this is the reward given when a team helps another team work on their robot to get it running.

[JaneYoung]

What if you used stamps or stickers on the robot on a small label?
They could work like the tokens only could not be easily lost or exchanged.

There could be a reward or bonus for getting another team up and running maybe in the form of a token.

[IndySam]

Option 3 looks like the best one except that the robots with pits near the queuing line would have a huge advantage over teams farthest away.

[AndyB]

Do you think with option 3, we could end up seeing teams line up to line up in the filler line.

[Nitroxextreme]

I would have to say option 3 is the most beneficial to teams. However, I would make one amendment having to do with those teams that want to go into the standby line. I think that all teams that want to wait in the standby line, must have been fully inspected before they are allowed to do so.

[Richard Wallace]

A new policy on practice matches is included in the recently released 2008 FRC Manual, 3 - At the Events, starting on page 5.

See related thread.