**FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Competition Manual Sections Posted

[JohnBoucher]

What no game hint?

[IndySam]

Longest six weeks of the year followed by the shortest six weeks of the year!



I need a game hint soon.

[Richard Wallace]

From "At The Events", a new policy to reduce wasted practice match time: (It think this is a really good change.)

Originally Posted by 2008 FRC Manual 3 - At the Events

3.6.1 Practice Matches
Your registration envelope will contain a list of practice times for the first day. Practice matches take place on the competition field. The list will indicate on which competition field you will practice and with what teams. Teams may not switch practice times.
3.6.1.1 Time Slots
All teams will receive a comprehensive list of practice times. Your team must be ready to practice at the designated times and on the specified fields. If your team/robot cannot be ready for your practice time slot, you team may still send your human player to practice alone. Your team members may want to scout other teams and their strategies during practice and the actual competition matches.
3.6.1.2 The Filler Line
Although teams may not switch practice times, there will be a designated Filler Line at each Regional Competition. Teams whose robots are ready for practice may join the filler line. Teams from the Filler Line will be used on a first come, first serve basis to fill empty spots in practice matches left by other teams that do not show up for their own practice match. Filler Lines will be limited to at most, six robots, but is dependent upon space at venues. Criteria for joining the filler line are as follows:

- Teams must join the Filler Line with their robot
- Teams may not work on their robot while in the Filler Line
- Teams may not occupy more than one spot in the Filler Line
- If a team is queued up for their practice match, they may not join the Filler Line
- Robots in the Filler Line, after the lunch break, must have passed full inspection.

3.6.1.3 Courtesy
In order to make the most of practice time, there will be specified teams on a field during assigned practice slot. Each team must be respectful of the other teams sharing the field. Friendly interaction between machines is acceptable if all teams are willing. Un-sportsmanlike conduct on the part of a team during practice could result in loss of practice time.

Emphasis mine.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

What no game hint?

Game hint usually comes around December 20th, I think. Guess they don't want us to go too crazy.

I like this whole filler line concept, but everyone always misses practice matches to pass inspection. Me thinks this "Filler Line" will be infamous for being extremely long in the later hours of Thursday.

[Pavan Dave]

I have a feeling that letting out parts of the game until kickoff letter by letter is of Dave's doing to make us all go crazy... On another note I like this filler line deal and since my job [as controls] really doesn't get too messy for the most part, I am always trying to get the bot inspected. Now this is a kind of "incentive" for our team to actually get inspected sooner, preferably as soon as we uncrate!

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

...everyone always misses practice matches to pass inspection...

Ian,

Having a team miss a scheduled practice is the last thing that the your inspection team wants. As far as I am concerned, no team should ever miss a practice due to the inspection process (the only excuse being a serious safety concern by the inspector).

I suggest that you talk to your lead inspector as soon as possible and explain what happened to your team in the past. He or she can be contacted via your Regional Director.

If you had a "legitimate" experience issue, the LI and RD will make sure that it does not happen again. Note that I placed legitimate in quotes. Most teams miss matches because either they can not operate or they choose not to practice (it happens more often than you would think...).

Regards,

Mike

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

.... As far as I am concerned, no team should ever miss a practice due to the inspection process (the only excuse being a serious safety concern by the inspector). ...

I agree with Mike. When your team is called for a scheduled practice match, inspection should be suspended until your team returns to the pit and your inspector is available again. Teams and inspectors need to work with each other to minimize inspection delays, but making it to scheduled practice matches has to be the priority. (Unless your robot is a safety hazard on the field -- fixing THAT is an even higher priority.)

[Ian Curtis]

I think you misunderstood me, and I was over generalizing. It is not the fault of the inspector that we miss practice matches, but our own, becuase we choose to fix problems earlier in the day and work through a practice match. We could chose to wait, but we'd rather get practice in at the end of the day with a complete robot than get in more practice with a less complete one.

Also, as BAE is a first week regional, usually the first 5 or so practice matches average about 2 teams showing up. I would assume other teams are making the same choices as we are.

My experiences with inspectors have been very positive. I can still recall fondly the first inspector we ever had, who told us we had to rewire a significant part of our ground wiring (we ran out of black wire near the end of the season ). Managing to stay in someones good graces after telling them they have to rewire a robot, is a skill I'd love to have.

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

Ian,

Having a team miss a scheduled practice is the last thing that the your inspection team wants. As far as I am concerned, no team should ever miss a practice due to the inspection process (the only excuse being a serious safety concern by the inspector).

I suggest that you talk to your lead inspector as soon as possible and explain what happened to your team in the past. He or she can be contacted via your Regional Director.

If you had a "legitimate" experience issue, the LI and RD will make sure that it does not happen again. Note that I placed legitimate in quotes. Most teams miss matches because either they can not operate or they choose not to practice (it happens more often than you would think...).

Regards,

Mike

[Billfred]

Having read through the sections, I am quite pleased. Lessons from 2007 were integrated, Chairman's and WFA winners get recognized in the first section of the manual, the awards section is the easiest to follow that I've ever read, and there aren't any head-scratchers. (Alright, so I wouldn't mind if FIRST standardized on the use of the title of "Regional Champion" instead of alternating with "Regional Winner" in half of the places...but that's another story.)

[Pat Fairbank]

I, for one, am glad to see that FIRST has already clearly addressed the issue of machine tools in the pits and team-provided machine shops in sections 3.9.13 and 3.9.14, respectively (instead of leaving it to the second week of regionals as in 2007).

The gist of it is that bench-top tools band saws, drill presses, sanders, CNCs and the like are permitted, as are team-provided mobile machine shops if they provide their own liability coverage and power supply.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

I, for one, am glad to see that FIRST has already clearly addressed the issue of machine tools in the pits and team-provided machine shops in sections 3.9.13 and 3.9.14, respectively (instead of leaving it to the second week of regionals as in 2007).

The gist of it is that bench-top tools band saws, drill presses, sanders, CNCs and the like are permitted, as are team-provided mobile machine shops if they provide their own liability coverage and power supply.

I'm very glad to see this, too. The Thunderchickens are due to visit St. Louis, a Week 1 event again this year. With a little preparation, these policies on power tools should allow them operate the way they wanted to last year. It is good to have reasonable rules spelled out in advance so everyone knows what to expect.

As has been discussed extensively in other threads, teams participating in Week 1 events deserve the same advantages as those who participate later in the season. Props to FIRST for making their power tool policy clear well in advance.

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Billfred

(Alright, so I wouldn't mind if FIRST standardized on the use of the title of "Regional Champion" instead of alternating with "Regional Winner" in half of the places...but that's another story.)

If you redline it, I will help you get it to the people who can update it.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Billfred

... (Alright, so I wouldn't mind if FIRST standardized on the use of the title of "Regional Champion" instead of alternating with "Regional Winner" in half of the places...but that's another story.)

Originally Posted by RoboMom

If you redline it, I will help you get it to the people who can update it.

Standardizing on one title would be good. I prefer "Winner" rather than "Champion" to describe teams on the alliance that wins the final elimination matches.

"Champion" would be appropriate for teams that are the sole representatives of one event to compete at a higher level -- but that's not the way FIRST works. Each Regional Event can be represented by several teams at the FRC Championship Event, and winning the eliminations is only one way that a team can become one of those representatives.

[Rich Kressly]

It looks like Richard, Jenny, Mike, and the crew have all of the major points already pointed out in the released sections of the 2008 FRC manual, except .... pssttttttt ..... WFFA entries .... the Holiday season is for giving .... plan it now, get a head start ... the robot needs to be built in six weeks, but there's NOTHING prohibiting your team from working on honoring your special leader - NOW. Need some inspiration (and samples)?
Here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45026
and
Here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=54710

Don't delay. You'll hate yourselves when you get 'too busy" in February.
For your reference, the 2008 Awards section is posted here:
http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...nt.aspx?id=452

Do it now. It's not about winning. It's about celebrating the finest inspirational examples we have.

Namaste.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

I like this whole filler line concept, but everyone always misses practice matches to pass inspection. Me thinks this "Filler Line" will be infamous for being extremely long in the later hours of Thursday.

Uh...Methinks the Filler Line will be very quiet and the inspection line will be extremely long!!! (Then reversing right at the end of practice matches).