DEJA VU

[archiver]

Posted by Daniel, Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M Gunn Senior High School and NASA Ames.

Posted on 4/5/99 12:54 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Rejections are not in the spirit of the game posted by Tom Vanderslice on 4/4/99 9:29 PM MST:



I think you underestimate FIRST. Just because what they do in sports works, you can't assume that FIRST wouldn't come up with something better. Here's my opinion:

After only 6 QMs, the top 16 seeds won't necessarily be the top 16 robots, and even if by some chance they are, the robots certainly won't be in the correct order. The process FIRST has devised allows for the most deserving of the top 16 to pair with the most deserving of the non-qualified 'bots. This eliminates the randomness of the seeding process. Besides, just because a team isn't seeded in the top 16, that doesn't mean they aren't one of the best robots. A very good defensive robot could be seeded 63rd and still well deserve to do a little choosing of it's own. It all depends on how you play. But I digress, the point I was trying to bring across was that you shouldn't focus too much on the downsides, because when you don't it becomes clear that FIRST was implemented this rule with the deliberate attempt at making the game fair, which is really the main issue. Don't you think?

One last thing: we've done this before, maybe this time we can follow through and not let this thread die prematurely just to be resurrected in a week.

FIRST, if you're out there...good job!

-Daniel Lehrbaum
GRT Student Co-Captain

[archiver]

Posted by Michael Betts, Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.

Posted on 4/5/99 6:53 PM MST


In Reply to: Rejections are not in the spirit of the game posted by Frank on 4/4/99 9:04 PM MST:



: So here are my thoughts on the whole situation. I went to the Detriot
: regional with WildStang and helped them with some strategy stuff. I was
: there when they were denied over and over again. I was there when a
: team came up and said 'Do not pick us, we already have an alliance with
: a lower seeded team.' And all that time, I thought how unlike the
: spirit of FIRST that Dean and Woodie always talk about that behavior
: really was. If you make it to the top, you should be able to pick
: the robot that will best compliment yours...WildStang was seeded second
: and got their thrid or fourth choice of a teammate. It was a great robot
: nonetheless, but not the one that the strategy group had picked as the
: best match. A lower team got an advantage by picking a 'better' team.

: You have to remember that by denying teams so that a lower seeded team
: can have a better alliance with robots that 'work together' and higher
: seeded team will get shafted.

: My basic point is that if you are good enough to make it to the top, you
: should be able to pick your partner. And the only way someone should be
: able to deny you should be if they choose not to be in the finals (i.e.
: their robot is broken, etc). Teams in the bottom group should be
: honored to go with whatever team chooses them.

: That's my take on it..I think it will be a lot more friendly that way.

: Frank Bentley
: Team 97 MIT/CRLS '99
: Team 111 WildStang '96-'98

I've been reading the talk on this subject for quite a while now and I
suppose that it’s time to put my two cents in.

In my opinion, I have to agree with Frank, Bill and Joe (et al). It
would be far better to not allow rejections, for any reason, during the
draft process. For all the reasons already stated, it’s fairer and
simpler for all concerned.

A top seeded team still needs to do it’s homework. They have to scout
and rank the other teams. They also need to meet with potential partners
to insure that they have working robots at the end of the seeding rounds
and would be willing (if not downright enthusiastic) to enter into an
alliance with them.

However, I also have an obligation to do the best by my team. If the
rules stay as they are now, my team will, in all probability, continue
to seek pre-arranged alliances.

I have a love/hate attitude toward the whole alliance concept.

There is no doubt that it has opened communication lines between teams
to a new level. Gone are the days when teams cover their robot between
matches and it’s a whole lot easier to get close up pics (with narrative
explanations!) of those interesting subsystems.

Conversely, it also dilutes a team’s resources at the contest. The
Bobcats will have a dedicated “marketing and strategic planning” team
at Orlando to “sell our product” and woo potential partners.

I will be a member of that team.

Did I mention that I really despise salesmen?

[archiver]

Posted by Daniel, Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M Gunn Senior High School and NASA Ames.

Posted on 4/5/99 11:57 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Rejections are not in the spirit of the game posted by Michael Betts on 4/5/99 6:53 PM MST:



Please respond to my post, I'm interested to hear what you have to say about it.

Link follows...

-Daniel