Go to Post Last I checked the Mars Rovers don't play any defense either and that's pretty cool stuff. - Rich Kressly [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Control System > Sensors
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 18:18
Daniel Bathgate's Avatar
Daniel Bathgate Daniel Bathgate is offline
Registered User
AKA: blacklint
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Needham, MA
Posts: 79
Daniel Bathgate will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Daniel Bathgate
Re: Problems with IR Board

I can not make our board work either. I have tried hooking it up to a 9 volt battery and a benchtop power supply set to 9 volts, and have verified that there are 5 volts across C4 and the pins 2 and 3 on the white connector. However, nothing happens when I connect power. If I hold down the "learn" button and connect the battery, none of the LEDs light.

I've paranoidly double checked the polarity every time I've connected it, and since I have been fairly careful, I doubt static has damaged it (though that is always a possibility.) I seem to attract problems sometimes...

---[More fiddling with the edit window still open]---

Aha! Our board DOES work. Just not the LEDs. I checked across the contacts of the LEDs with my trusty voltmeter after entering the setup sequence, and low and behold CMD0 had 5 volts across it. So I tried going through the whole learning sequence, then held my voltmeter to the connector and saw a voltage jump whenever I pressed the button. It works! Either all of the LEDs are bad, or could it be the LEDs are wired backwards? According to the voltmeter, the positive leads (for all but ERROR) are the ones towards the outside, which is the side of the LED that has the little notch and the larger piece of metal internally. If I'm reading the Wikipedia page correctly, it seems they should be the other way around.

That's something I could fix myself, but following BMW's recommendation I won't attempt it. Good to know ours works except for that though!
Reply With Quote
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 18:35
Daniel Bathgate's Avatar
Daniel Bathgate Daniel Bathgate is offline
Registered User
AKA: blacklint
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Needham, MA
Posts: 79
Daniel Bathgate will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Daniel Bathgate
Re: Problems with IR Board

And about keen101's board:

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
I put an ohmmeter on a handy anti-static bag, it said infinite resistance....but it's not a very good ohmmeter.
Did the same with my Fluke, and also got infinite resistance. But if I jammed the leads just right into some of the holes the board had poked in transit, the resistance dropped to about an ohm. So if the board got pushed into the bag while it was on, it very well could have shorted out.
Reply With Quote
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 18:56
Daniel_LaFleur's Avatar
Daniel_LaFleur Daniel_LaFleur is offline
Mad Scientist
AKA: Me
FRC #2040 (DERT)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,984
Daniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond reputeDaniel_LaFleur has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Daniel_LaFleur
Re: Problems with IR Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
beeing over 40, I had to take a picture of the part to be able to read the writing on it!
Looking at your picture, the part is made by National Semiconductor (thats the funky looking 'N' as the first letter) .

A quick search found a data sheet here ( http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM78L05.pdf )

While they are ESD sensitive devices, they tend to be rather robust so a little handling should not hurt them very much.

There are a number of things that these little guys dont like:
1: Input power and ground reversed. So watch your polarity when applying power.
2: Voltage on the output being driven higher than the input voltage. This typically only happends with some sort of inductive kick, but ...
3: Applying more than 35 Volts at the input. Some power supplies (especially older ones) may spike when turning on. Check your power supply with an o'scope to see if it spikes (DMMs don't read fast enough).

They can be bought here http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...M78L05ACZNS-ND
__________________
___________________
"We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. "
- Tennyson, Ulysses
Reply With Quote
  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 19:02
ChuckDickerson's Avatar
ChuckDickerson ChuckDickerson is offline
Mentor / Bayou & CMP Division LRI
FRC #0456 (Siege Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Vicksburg, MS
Posts: 877
ChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond reputeChuckDickerson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

For what its worth, I contacted Ben at Diversified Systems and asked about testing the board by bypassing the 5 volt regulator and just powering the board via a regulated 5VDC supply connected to pins 2 and 3 of the white connector. He replied that the PIC will smoke at 5.5 volts but it would be a good test of the functionality of the rest of the board to try it at 5VDC. So we broke down and tried it. Same results, nothing seemed to happen at least with the on board LEDs. Ben indicated that Diversified Systems is working with FIRST to determine how best to resolve the problems so I suspect we will all be getting an email blast from FIRST sooner or later on how to repair/replace/order the IR receiver boards. I guess all we can do for now is wait and see.

Ben and Diversified Systems: Thank you again very much for your support of FRC and the very generous donation. We are all looking forward to learning exactly what it is we are supposed to do with these IR boards!
Reply With Quote
  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 19:35
ShortBang's Avatar
ShortBang ShortBang is offline
Bring the Rain!
AKA: Ben
FRC #2199 (RoboLions)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Eldersburg
Posts: 39
ShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to beholdShortBang is a splendid one to behold
Re: Problems with IR Board

so we finnaly got our board today, but all that would light up was the error LED. we followed the directiond word for word, holding the button before powering up, and letting go after more that 2 sec., and had the Error LED do the instructed Flash once or twice, but never had the 0 LED flash to signal the learning loop.

We also had the board sitting on the anti static bag at one point, but seeing how the error LED light, i doubt we fried it.

Does anybody know if this is a board problem or a user problem?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 19:54
billbo911's Avatar
billbo911 billbo911 is offline
I prefer you give a perfect effort.
AKA: That's "Mr. Bill"
FRC #2073 (EagleForce)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Elk Grove, Ca.
Posts: 2,387
billbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
the board runs at 5 volts, not 12 volts, so 228 / 5 = 46 mA....
I was quoting the values directly from the users guide provided by FIRST. I agree the circuit past the regulator is run off 5 vdc, but the board it's self is powered by >7.2 vdc to 10 vdc. In the users guide it says that it "assumes" the board is powered by 12 vdc.
Either way, the load drawn by circuit when one LED is on should not exceed the ability of the regulator to power the circuit without failing.

If there is a problem with the circuit, FIRST will find it, maybe with the help of some of us, (Remember the Bane-Bot trannies from last year?) and suggest, provide or publish the solution.
__________________
CalGames 2009 Autonomous Champion Award winner
Sacramento 2010 Creativity in Design winner, Sacramento 2010 Quarter finalist
2011 Sacramento Finalist, 2011 Madtown Engineering Inspiration Award.
2012 Sacramento Semi-Finals, 2012 Sacramento Innovation in Control Award, 2012 SVR Judges Award.
2012 CalGames Autonomous Challenge Award winner ($$$).
2014 2X Rockwell Automation: Innovation in Control Award (CVR and SAC). Curie Division Gracious Professionalism Award.
2014 Capital City Classic Winner AND Runner Up. Madtown Throwdown: Runner up.
2015 Innovation in Control Award, Sacramento.
2016 Chezy Champs Finalist, 2016 MTTD Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 20:05
www.divsys.com's Avatar
www.divsys.com www.divsys.com is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 30
www.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud ofwww.divsys.com has much to be proud of
Re: Problems with IR Board

It appears only <10 of the total qty have had any concerns. I would hold tight to see what is done for any resolution. All of the boards were powered prior to packaging, programming was reserved for teams per the instructions.

BMW
Reply With Quote
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 20:14
DonRotolo's Avatar
DonRotolo DonRotolo is offline
Back to humble
FRC #0832
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 7,025
DonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

I completely agree: IF there really is any kind of problem, I have complete confidence that FIRST and DSI will make it right.

But, WE have to help! By that, I mean this: Unless you are posting a fact, PLEASE label it as an opinion. At the very beginning of the BaneBots issue, there was a LOT of "noise" from people speculating, guessing an just plain writing what they thought was happening, but with little basis in fact. It was not until certain engineering folks started documenting facts using the scientific method (and photographs) that we got to the "root cause" and enabled BaneBots to address it.

Again: Post facts please, not opinion. If you don't know what happened, then just post your factual observations. If you speculate, then label it as such.

Tally so far:
358: LEDs flash during learning. After, either error light or nothing
456: Totally dead, 78L05 has no output
1357: Worked, then 78L05 fried. Maybe anti-static bag?
2144: Board works, LEDs do not light
2199: Error LED lights sometimes, not "0" (learn loop) LED


FYI: Current advice is NOT to repair the board if you suspect an issue, instead report your observations (to FIRST?). The regulator is a 78L05 in the standard TO-93 package, available almost anywhere (even Radio Shack - PM me and I'll mail you one). +5 VDC can be supplie, but the PIC will fry at 5.5, VDC, so try it only if you are really certain of your power supply...

Thanks,
Don
__________________

I am N2IRZ - What's your callsign?
Reply With Quote
  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 22:33
Unsung FIRST Hero
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
Engineer/Mentor/Inspector
AKA: FirstCadLibrary Guy, Inspector Dude
FRC #3959 (Formally with FRC-34)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 624
Ed Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond reputeEd Sparks has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ed Sparks Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Sparks
Re: Problems with IR Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur View Post
Looking at your picture, the part is made by National Semiconductor (thats the funky looking 'N' as the first letter) .

A quick search found a data sheet here ( http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM78L05.pdf )

While they are ESD sensitive devices, they tend to be rather robust so a little handling should not hurt them very much.

There are a number of things that these little guys dont like:
1: Input power and ground reversed. So watch your polarity when applying power.
2: Voltage on the output being driven higher than the input voltage. This typically only happends with some sort of inductive kick, but ...
3: Applying more than 35 Volts at the input. Some power supplies (especially older ones) may spike when turning on. Check your power supply with an o'scope to see if it spikes (DMMs don't read fast enough).

They can be bought here http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...M78L05ACZNS-ND
Hmmm.....

Says in the data sheet that these regulators have short circuit and thermal protection built in. In other words, given that the power source is within spec, you should not be able to destroy them (no matter what the load). Maybe some were accidently powered up with reverse polarity at some point. I'm leaning toward the explanations in Daniel's list.
__________________
Ed Sparks

MECH TECH FRC-3959
Reply With Quote
  #40   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 22:46
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,764
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

If anyone is going to modify/fix this board, wouldn't the work have to be done AFTER kickoff?
__________________
(since 2004)
Reply With Quote
  #41   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-12-2007, 23:38
nautica's Avatar
nautica nautica is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Claremont, CA
Posts: 11
nautica is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Problems with IR Board

Our team successfully trained the chip today.
All we did was follow the instructions about pressing the buttons.
We were able to light up the LEDs using channel buttons (1-4) on a universal TV remote.

Tally so far:
358: LEDs flash during learning. After, either error light or nothing
456: Totally dead, 78L05 has no output
846: LEDs flash during learning and afterwards when controlled by remote.
1357: Worked, then 78L05 fried. Maybe anti-static bag?
2144: Board works, LEDs do not light
2199: Error LED lights sometimes, not "0" (learn loop) LED

Last edited by nautica : 21-12-2007 at 02:21. Reason: added tally
Reply With Quote
  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-12-2007, 01:36
keen101's Avatar
keen101 keen101 is offline
Ubuntu Linux User
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 228
keen101 is a jewel in the roughkeen101 is a jewel in the roughkeen101 is a jewel in the roughkeen101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Problems with IR Board

Heh. Maybe people should start using the numbers that Don supplied as error numbers.


for example: I had a "1357 error" on Wed.


Tally so far:
358: LEDs flash during learning. After, either error light or nothing
456: Totally dead, 78L05 has no output
1357: Worked, then 78L05 fried. Maybe anti-static bag?
2144: Board works, LEDs do not light
2199: Error LED lights sometimes, not "0" (learn loop) LED

............

Then again... maybe not. I don't know if it would help or not.
Reply With Quote
  #43   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-12-2007, 06:43
Mark McLeod's Avatar
Mark McLeod Mark McLeod is offline
Just Itinerant
AKA: Hey dad...Father...MARK
FRC #0358 (Robotic Eagles)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hauppauge, Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,938
Mark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

Please focus this thread on issues with the board only.
Can be failures, potential ways to kill the board, or just interesting unreported behavior, such as, getting the LEDs into a chase sequence.
Let's assume most of the boards operate normally, and we're looking for that 1%.

I added a thread with a poll where we can report that our boards are working great!

Please don't repeat the talley if you haven't added your team to it. Otherwise it just takes up space.
We're looking for added value.

I'd like to avoid a 1500 post chatty thread of who's board works.
__________________
"Rationality is our distinguishing characteristic - it's what sets us apart from the beasts." - Aristotle

Last edited by Mark McLeod : 21-12-2007 at 11:10.
Reply With Quote
  #44   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-12-2007, 15:18
BanksKid's Avatar
BanksKid BanksKid is offline
..as The Circuitrunner.
AKA: Banks, Ethan Banks
FRC #1002 (Circuitrunners)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Marietta
Posts: 88
BanksKid will become famous soon enoughBanksKid will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to BanksKid
Re: Problems with IR Board

no offense but did it ever occur to you guys fiddeling with your board hookup that the ribbon cable is the key to successfull opperation????(ie not frying the board)/it is definatly bad about the faulty voltage regulators....i have no idea about our board.
__________________
"WE HAVE A CAMERA RIGHT NOW!"

R.I.P. SAM
Reply With Quote
  #45   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-12-2007, 20:23
Aren_Hill's Avatar
Aren_Hill Aren_Hill is offline
Build Nifty Things
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Menlo Park CA
Posts: 1,219
Aren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond reputeAren_Hill has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Problems with IR Board

Ours was functioning perfectly fine responding as per the pdf guidelines, then some magic smoke came out of the 5v regulator and it now smells funny (this is a mechanical persons diagnosis). So BMW any advice?
__________________
A guy who likes robots.
1625->3928->148->1296->971 oh dear
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Learn C, C++, and Java with new board game. Elgin Clock Programming 8 04-11-2005 13:28
problems with G22 JMH Electrical 2 19-01-2005 20:52
Problems with referees?! LauraN General Forum 16 22-03-2004 17:05
School Board Problems Matthew_H General Forum 47 16-03-2004 18:32


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi