**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

[Mr_I]

I can't tell you how many years my team members spend December uttering the phrase "So the question is: submarine or hovercraft?"

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by MiniNerd24

The first clue said something about noodles and if it is pool noodles then it could be another reference to water. If anyone thinks of another kind of water reference let me know.
(You might want to use both clues)

Those were referencing 2006's game and the "noodle" clues, and "Montana" clues were clues released in December 2005.

Please start at the beginning of this thread, and see that our ONLY clues for the 2008 game are the release of an IR receiver board, and a series of 3 numbers, and nothing else.

Thank you.

[trekkiencc74656]

the ir was used in 2004. text from 2004 game manual found here :

3.2.5 IR Beacons
Centered on the top of each Tee Frame is a light beacon that continuously emits an infrared signal across the
playing field during a match. Each beacon emits at the same IR frequency, but sends pulse trains of different
pulse widths. The beacon nearest to the red moveable goal will transmit a Type-1 signal, and the one nearest
the blue goal will be Type-0. These signals are detectable by robot-mounted IR receivers that are tuned to the
beacons’ frequency. The receivers provide direct input to the robot’s control system when they sense an IR
signal.
FIRST has supplied appropriate code that allows teams to program their robot’s controller to make decisions
based on a received signal and discriminate between the two Tee locations. Thus teams may create
mechanisms on their robots to locate and track a beacon during the autonomous period. The Kit contains four
IR receivers and materials needed to build a beacon.

So it could be used for autonomous instead of the grenn light and camera this year.

[trekkiencc74656]

I just found this to I dont how many people saw it but the ir can be trained to four different command sequences meaning that it is probably going to be used like a remote control.the pdf for the ir instructions is available here

[Arefin Bari]

This is my only and final guess for 2008 game.

We started receiving the CMU cam back in 2005. Since then FIRST has motivated us to use the camera. But there are only few teams who have accomplished finishing the task using a camera. In 2008, FIRST will try to make it simple for teams to use the camera.

There will be an autonomous but it will be at the end of the game. Now let's look at the clues... and IR receiver and coordinate points (or seems like it). Every single year starting 2005 (and 2002) till now we had to go back to the home zone to receive bonus points. This upcoming season, the IR receiver will tell us what we should aim for (there may be multiple green lights just like 2007). The coordinate points refer to the home zone or certain zones that we are suppose to be at after the time runs out. If task is accomplished you receive bonus points.

... now it's time to wait till January 5th and see the real game.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by trekkiencc74656

I just found this to I dont how many people saw it but the ir can be trained to four different command sequences meaning that it is probably going to be used like a remote control.the pdf for the ir instructions is available here

We've all seen it. Not to be mean or anything...just read the posts please =)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by trekkiencc74656

I just found this to I dont how many people saw it but the ir can be trained to four different command sequences meaning that it is probably going to be used like a remote control.the pdf for the ir instructions is available here

Yes, we noticed. (Note: reading the whole thread might not be necessary to get to this conclusion, but it would be a good idea. If you don't want to look through the whole thing, search the thread (orange bar at top of thread, top right).) And it's a receiver, not a transmitter, so it can't be used like a remote control.

[Optimizer]

Either I'm missing something here, or I have cause to be sorely disappointed at the fine folks posting here!

Having come back, and read EVERY darned post, didn't anybody notice the infamous Dave's latest post (#48, on the page 24)? In the signature part on the bottom, it adds (and I think this is a new thing):

For the two - this season is for you.

Now, this could refer to some happy couple (or two separate individuals) who are of importance to FIRST, and who have something special going on. OR ... it might actually work with another theory I have.

Let's keep in mind, BTW, that last year's animation contest was called "Thinking Green", which was supposed to be about the environment (how that has to do with robotics, someone would have to explain to me).

I get to my theory this way. Let's assume that many of the previous posters are correct, and that if you stand at the given latitude and longitude, and look at the given bearing, that you see the "Globe Bar & Grill". I then ask you, what goes on at the Globe Bar and Grill?

My answer: "Global Warming"

Who would be "the two" in Dave's new hint? How 'bout the two recipients of that Nobel Peace Prize (again, don't ask me what GW has to do with World Peace). If the organizers are into environmentalism (which they apparently are), surely they couldn't resist commemorating the Peace Prize news. A lot of scientists are riding this "train", and would consider these guys to be heroes literally saving the world with science.

So I humbly suggest that this hint is trying to tell us that this year's game has a theme associated with Global Warming. The IR (from the first hint) is even heat-related.


My second favorite theory is that it points to the Tortoise and Hare sculptures, but we still haven't had a volunteer actually go there and report on EXACTLY where the coordinates point to. The "For the two" doesn't work as well for me with this one, though, since it's just a couple of statues.

[Chief Samwize]

Global warming is causing the polar ice caps to melt. WATER GAME!

Sorry couldn't help myself.

-Sam

[Elgin Clock]

Time for a side tracked thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

My new thoughts about clue #2?

We can all agree (maybe) on the fact that it is a point in Copley Square looking at the heading 342.xxxxx, and I don't believe it really matters what the numbers after the decimal point are in that last number, they are just longer than they need to be to confuse us, and/or make us think harder or even better than we need to.

I believe the second clue is just a warning about the game that will be emphasised at kickoff and beyond. Knowing the GDC, this just sounds way too much like the general thinking from them towards us as teams as I have experienced in the past.

The warning... is simple.

The moral is stated at the end of the fable as: Slow and steady wins the race.

I've beaten this clue to death, and sometimes it's the things that are right in front of us that prove to be the most elusive to find or decode.

I'll leave out thoughts of an endgame autonomous mode, and an IR beacon on the field, but will leave with the thought that whatever our task is this year in the game, that we will have to be careful and not just go on a brute force mission to accomplish what we need to do.

Slow & Steady....


Now, this doesn't man I won't have more fun learning about Boston, and Copley Square, and the people*, and places that make up the area in question, but for a second, I believe that the Tortoise & The Hare statue give us the (simple) answer to the (not so simple) mystery we seek.


*For example, did you know that the Architect of Trinity Church (Henry Hobes Richardson) who has indeed left his legacy in the field of Architecture from Boston MA, to Hartford CT, to Chicago IL, has his own homestead in jeopardy of being demolished, and that it is on the National Trust's Top 11 most Endangered places? I didn't know that. I didn't even know who he was, let alone that he led to the Richardson Romanesque style of Architecture here in the US. Very cool indeed.

Very cool stuff is to be found in the area of the Clue coordinates, you just have to look.

I'm putting Copley Square on my agenda of places to visit the next time I am in Boston.

Thank you for that GDC! If for nothing else than adding another place to my agenda to visit to learn just a little more about the past as you are busy creating the future!

-elgin




.



Oh, and btw... if that's not enough to satisfy your clue searching tendancies folks, check out THIS more complex & math related connection to The Tortoise & The Hare.

Let the games continue.


Only 9 more days till we know for sure...

[MiniNerd24]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

Those were referencing 2006's game and the "noodle" clues, and "Montana" clues were clues released in December 2005.

Please start at the beginning of this thread, and see that our ONLY clues for the 2008 game are the release of an IR receiver board, and a series of 3 numbers, and nothing else.

Thank you.

Thank you, Elgin. Yeah I must of found the wrong "game hint" thread
before I joined. Darn and I've been giving myself headaches over that clue!

[Roger]

Well, having been to Copley and seen nothing of importance, here are some more ideas to throw into the heap:

Assuming (of course!) that the first two numbers indicate an Earth position, and that position is in the middle of a brick plaza at Copley Square, it seems to me it's the playing field of the game, and that coordinates (of some sort) play a factor in the game.

Copley Square, and the whole of Back Bay, is not on a north-south grid, but (as carefully as I can do it capturing a google map and drawing a line on it using PaintShop Pro), is approximately 342.242026 degrees counterclockwise from North. I suppose my next trip to Copley I could bring some surveying equipment there and check my measurements?

Remember last years clue, with the photo of the "5" on the metal circle? There wasn't five anythings in the game -- not even five robots vs one. The "5" was simply the number on the rack that faced the audience. The clue numbers may not mean anything by itself, just that coordinates play a factor in the game. And maybe that the game is called "Copley Squares". (Copy Squares? Copling Squares? I really am not good at naming FIRST games.)

The infrared board clue may or may not have anything to do with coordinates. It seems to me that it is part of the game, and I'm guessing a part on the robot. I'm sure the number crunchers at FedEx were grinding their teeth -- what do you mean, ship a thousand packages right before Christmas?

One thought from our team -- you got 40-50 teams with tv remotes testing their robots in the Pits. Who knows how many more tv remotes in the stands. And six robots on the field receiving all these signals. The first week of competitions is going to be -- interesting. Our robot last year was chasing green light reflections off the side walls of the field in autonomous; something (as I heard it) they didn't think of. Now we have to figure out how to ignore random IR signals? I hope they've got an answer to this one.

The Tortoise and the Hare could play a part -- the statues are in the direction of 342.242026 degrees.

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I'm putting Copley Square on my agenda of places to visit the next time I am in Boston.

While I'm not trying to dissuade you, Copley Square isn't high on my list. I'll grant you the architecture is interesting and varied and worth a visit, but I guess I'm a little jaded after commuting thru there for so many years.

If you want to see Boston from up high, the Prudential Tower is still open; the Hancock tower closed after 9/11 and there is some politics about not re-opening.

The Hancock tower was called the plywood tower after it was built and all the windows kept falling out. It's safer now.

Do not even try to visit there on Marathon Day, unless you go via Hopkinton . The whole area is closed as that is where the runners go after they finish in front of the Boston Public Library. The finish line is on Boylston between the old and new BPL buildings.

Back Bay station is an Amtrak station and the last stop before South Station. There is also commuter rail and the Orange Line. The Green Line runs under Boylston Street to the 342.242026 bearing.

Copley is also a Boston First Night (new years eve) area. In years past they've had ice sculptures.

There was a movie (durn if I remember which one) that had an explosion at the corner of Boylston and Dartmouth Streets. I had to dodge all the movie equipment walking to Copley Station on the Green Line.

Back Bay is named because it was the literally the back bay of Boston, actually tidal flats, before the Charles River was dammed and the hills of Boston were pushed into all the bays. Before Boston was on the Shawmut Peninsula and when the wind was blowing the wrong way yoiu didn't want to be there. The North/South streets are named alphabetically and I still don't know which street is which. Newbury Street is where all the ritzy shops are.

And, last but not least, if you come to the Boston competition via the subway, it's on the "B" line of the Green Line trolley (subway), and get off at Pleasant Street. My office is right opposite the Agganis Arena. And then you'll know why I drive to work instead.

[11Mort11]

those numbers are field dimensions
or frequencys

just throwin it out there

[11Mort11]

maybe there was a typo andit should have been

Greeting Teams:

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026
they could be new unheard of teams

[MiniNerd24]

Originally Posted by Roger

(Copy Squares? Copling Squares? I really am not good at naming FIRST games.)

Yeah i'm no good at names for these games either, but what about Coupling Squares?