Hope of official Linux / Open Source software

[keen101]

Hey everyone,

I'd just like to let everyone know that I have finished my second draft of my letter to FIRST. I have written a letter in hopes that FIRST will seriously consider Linux, and perhaps Open Source software.

I have tried to write it as comprehensive and friendly as possible.

I think that if I can include specific Teams and their locations in the letter, then it will make a bigger impression. It may also provide a better "tally" of FIRST Linux users.

I have already been talking about this a bit in Ubuntu Forums. So, if your curious, then you could read the post there too.

If anyone would like an option like this to be available, then please include your team #, and location.

...It might be cool to also include a signature too. The best way I can think that this would work, is if you could sign a piece of paper with a small sentence of your view, and then to scan it and email it to me.

You may email me at any time. You may also email me if you would like a copy of my letter draft.

Keen101 [at] gmail [dot] com

[JBotAlan]

I too would be interested in the toolchain/IDE being open-source. I don't have access to a scanner or I would give you a signature...

JBot

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Why? A huge portion of the industry uses Windows. The toolchain runs in WINE. What more is needed?

[jtdowney]

I don't see this happening while FIRST still uses the PIC microprocessor from Microchip since it would require them releasing a native Linux compatible version of the C18 compiler.

[keen101]

There are many reasons why. If you'd like me to elaborate, then email me, and I'll give you a copy of my letter.

one is that it could be excluding low income schools who want to participate in FIRST, but don't have access to Windows computers.


...the WINE solution is not very elegant is it? It seems to me like you'd have to jump through a bunch a hoops to do it. Plus it's not officially supported by FIRST.

If anyone wants to be included in the letter, then I at least need you team number and location.

[EHaskins]

Originally Posted by keen101

one is that it could be excluding low income schools who want to participate in FIRST, but don't have access to Windows computers.

Do you have any examples of schools which can afford the hardware, but not Windows? That would be a good point, but I doubt there are any schools which don't have Windows computers. Teams having access to the computer is a different issue, but when you figure a cheap desktop is < $300 and registration is $6000 is that really a good argument?

-Eric

[keen101]

I really don't know if it's a good argument or not.

No, i don't have any examples, but it is possible, since we raise all our money from sponsors, and usually only scrape by with the minimum 6,000. It's possible these schools might only obtain the minimum amount.

I can try to give examples of low income schools from the Colorado area if people really want me to try. But, they wouldn't really be the example your looking for, since they probably have never heard of FIRST.

...then again... what about schools in other countries like Israel?

[keen101]

another advantage of an Open Source option would be that if Open Source it would be very easy to add native language support. For teams from Israel and such. I don't know if anyone would want this feature as I don't live in Israel, or have a hard time with English.

But, if they did... it would not be a problem.

[EHaskins]

I just looked through Sourceforge, and I found a Linux version of IFI Loader. I don't know if it works, but you might want to take a look.

I couldn't find a Linux compiler, but all the info you need to write your own is in the processor data sheet, sorry I don't have a link.

[AustinSchuh]

Originally Posted by EHaskins

I just looked through Sourceforge, and I found a Linux version of IFI Loader. I don't know if it works, but you might want to take a look.

It works like a champ. I have used it for 2 years, and love it. One of the mentors on our team was tempted to port it to Windows so he could use it to download to the robot because it works so well and is so simple. He didn't try because it is hard to use the serial port with Windows in a C program, but that is another problem.

[keen101]

Hmmm.... sounds interesting. I'll have to look into it.



also, many people may be sceptic as to if i even have a letter, so I will probably post my letter here when I'm finished and after I have sent it to FIRST. (assuming people want me to)

[jtdowney]

Originally Posted by EHaskins

I couldn't find a Linux compiler, but all the info you need to write your own is in the processor data sheet, sorry I don't have a link.

You can find the data sheets on the Microchip website. However that won't due them much good. Since telling someone to write a compiler because they have the data sheet is like giving them the blueprints to a jet and saying build it yourself. Very few people involved in FIRST have the experience or training to write a compiler.

[EHaskins]

Originally Posted by jtdowney

You can find the data sheets on the Microchip website. However that won't due them much good. Since telling someone to write a compiler because they have the data sheet is like giving them the blueprints to a jet and saying build it yourself. Very few people involved in FIRST have the experience or training to write a compiler.

I know that, but it would be possible if enough people got together. Unlikley, but possible.

[Greg Marra]

Guys, don't forget that this is the last year FIRST will be using the current controls system. The system employed next year may very well be entirely different, and any significant effort you put in now is likely to not transfer to that new controls system.

That being said, if you really want to do it, go for it!

[sparrowkc]

For people reading through this...

Just to clarify, mplab and the compiler that shipped last year (2007) both worked with wine, and with the loader mentioned above, you can develop on linux. There is also info out there on using makefiles and a native Linux IDE with c18 running in wine.