An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game

[Dick Linn]

I think a game with the playing field filled with spaghetti and sauce would be vastly more entertaining. I wonder if there's a difference in the coefficient of friction between marinara and meat sauce?

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by MiniNerd24

Well, Laaba I think you're right about the "big electronic box" bit. I don't think anyone would. As for the pool refilling technique, they'd probably go Jacuzzi style, with jets coming out of the sides and bottom.



Yeah, Kiwi. The damage factor could be make or break for teams. After all, if one ungrounded bot with a lose wire comes in contact with water. ZAP, and all of the teams are finished.

Just so you guys know, you are talking hypothetical. I can let you know that most people don't have a problem letting ROVs in their pool.

For the surface controls like tv monitors and such, you can use battery power and fuses. Also if you use an outlet, it must be a GFCI and that would alleviate any problems.

The rovs are also battery powered and fused. Plus even if it did, the pool is so large that the charge that an ROV would be able to provide would be insignificant due to the volume of water. In any event the fuse should blow. We have done this for years and have yet to see anything close to what you are describing. In fact, not at all.

[7/16ths Master]

Well a water game doesnt necessarily have to be one underwater. The water game could take place on the surface of the water and not underneath it. So it would be more like sailing boats(so essentially 2d motion instead of 3d as some of you have said), and it would pretty much be the same exact thing we have done for previous years, only on water.

Also, if the game were to be played on the surface, you wouldn't need a large amount of protection for electrical components. Just a few thoughts there

[MiniNerd24]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

Just so you guys know, you are talking hypothetical. I can let you know that most people don't have a problem letting ROVs in their pool.

For the surface controls like tv monitors and such, you can use battery power and fuses. Also if you use an outlet, it must be a GFCI and that would alleviate any problems.

The rovs are also battery powered and fused. Plus even if it did, the pool is so large that the charge that an ROV would be able to provide would be insignificant due to the volume of water. In any event the fuse should blow. We have done this for years and have yet to see anything close to what you are describing. In fact, not at all.

Thank you. Wasn't quite sure.

[boy_scout72688]

Here is a few nice Pros for you:

The volunteers could play in the pools every match and wouldn't be so hot like we get during the day.

The team members get to climb in and out of the pool

Volunteers and team members could be wearing swim suits

Cons:

Water would be everywhere in the venue

Volunteers would have to be in swim suits

I am to tired to think of more so thats all for now!

[alex1699]

con : IF the robot dies then how you get it out of the water for fast and easy matches.

[TheOtherGuy]

Originally Posted by alex1699

con : IF the robot dies then how you get it out of the water for fast and easy matches.

Pull it out with the tether!

[dlavery]

Pro -

- It would be something different for many of the teams to try

- Almost every team will start out with pretty much the same level of expertise - for some of the long-term mentors and engineers, it will be like starting in the FIRST program all over again, as they get to discover how much they know (and don't know) as they work in a new environment (personally, this aspect alone sounds like so much fun I almost don't need any other reason to want to try a water-based game)

- Water and the existing FRC control system co-exist quite happily, no matter what the "theorists" that have no actual empirical data may tell you (we have known this since at least the summer of 2000)

- Water could be a game factor in many, many ways - not all of them involve AUV-class devices

- New opportunities for previously-impractical robot designs and mobility technologies

- Opportunities to learn about sonar, acoustic range finders, and long-band optical communications

- Everyone gets to be SCUBA certified

- Woodie Flowers is joined by Jacques Cousteau Jr at the kick-off events

- We never have to worry if any of the robots catch on fire

- Designing and building a water-compatible robotic system is no more difficult than a mobile terrain-based robot - it is just different. The technologies are not what many teams may currently be used to, but they are no more esoteric, complex or difficult than anything that the teams are using now.

- If the game domain does dive below the surface (ha!) then the potential for a real three-dimensional arena is a wonderful opportunity

- Inexpensive acoustic positioning systems make underwater localization in a small environment a trivial problem (e.g. 3DAPS has been around for over 15 years)

- Software doesn't mind hydration - zeros and ones underwater work exactly the same way as zeros and ones on dry-land

- All the robots get to have little pirate flags on them, and we can all wear eye patches and swagger around going "yo-ho-ho me hardies!"

- Water (on it or under it) is a much more forgiving environment than that for aerial robotics

- Different and new vendors and sponsors could become involved in the FIRST program, enabling the FIRST philosophy to be spread further throughout our communities

- The competition arena would be LESS expensive to build than the current competition fields (yes, I am sure about this - a 12 x 24 x 4 foot temporary above ground pool currently goes for as little as $800 and you can get a 24 x 48 foot one for about $3000 - compare that with the cost of a typical complete FRC competition field from that past several years)

- The referees get to wear cute striped bathing caps



Con -

- After the 2008 game, there won't be any challenge left to it





-dave




p.s. I was also going to add a bullet that said "Andy Baker in a swim suit" but decided against it. You get to figure out if it was going to go in the "Pro" or "Con" column...

.

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Con -

- After the 2008 game, there won't be any challenge left to it





-dave

OH MY GOD ITS A WATER GAME. DAVE SAID SO.

OMG

[1337Nerd]

Originally Posted by ,4lex S.

Pros: A chance for a different experience than we are used to with FIRST (and really, what other robotics program would have multiple independently designed robots working together in alliances... underwater)

Cons: My team has already decided any water game should be solved with a bottom crawling sinking robot... with wheels.

Don't make fun of the bottom crawling robot with wheels. It's a solid idea.

[N7UJJ]

Originally Posted by 1337Nerd

Don't make fun of the bottom crawling robot with wheels. It's a solid idea.

Crab drive?

[1337Nerd]

Originally Posted by N7UJJ

Crab drive?

No, it's just a robot that sinks to the bottom of the pool and drives around on the bottom.

[MrForbes]

Crab drive? oh....that was a joke

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Crab drive? oh....that was a joke

Yup, it cracked me up.

[falconmaster]

Thank you Dave for adding your pros and con. I especially like the fact that you found out the field was not more expensive! Also thank you for not bringing up speedos for the refs!