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Unread 02-01-2008, 15:33
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksimhal View Post
Would it be ok (as in gracious professionalism), for a team and/or some other website to put up the game manual as soon as it is released, as to lessen the traffic on the FIRST website?

Thanks
You'd need a lot of bandwith to be able to do this effectively. If the FIRST site can't handle all the traffic, a team site won't be able to either.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 15:36
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Re: 2008 Documentation

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Originally Posted by aksimhal View Post
Would it be ok (as in gracious professionalism), for a team and/or some other website to put up the game manual as soon as it is released, as to lessen the traffic on the FIRST website?

Thanks
You'd also need to attain FIRST's approval. And from what I understand, that's not too easy of a task.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 15:43
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Re: 2008 Documentation

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
You'd need a lot of bandwith to be able to do this effectively. If the FIRST site can't handle all the traffic, a team site won't be able to either.
I seem to recall, back in the days when the manual was released at kickoff (no pre-release encrypted) they (FIRST) set up a couple of mirror sites for downloading. That was also before broadband was widespread and most people were using a 48k baud rate modem to download it. It took several hours.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 15:46
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Someone could create a torrent for those initial copies. (and have it widely publicized at kickoffs or something)
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:15
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Just two quick comments -

1 - Remember, the FIRST manual is a copyrighted item. As such, you can not re-distribute or re-host it without FIRST's permission. In the past, they have been understandably reluctant to do so, so they can maintain some semblance of version control if the manual should need to be updated.

2 - Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be), it is taking a little longer to have them prepared than originally anticipated. I am sure that FIRST is making every effort to ensure that each team will receive their tablets at, or shortly after, kick-off. Please make sure you have a clear space at your loading dock when the truck arrives. *


-dave


* Really people, what is everyone getting all in a panic about? As already noted, in prior years the encrypted manuals have not been released until the Thursday or Friday before kick-off. We are not there yet. I think that there is a much higher probability that the statement on the web site is simply a typo or mis-communication than it is that they have suddenly diverted from what has been a successful past practice. Just give it a day or two, and see what happens.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:22
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
You'd need a lot of bandwith to be able to do this effectively. If the FIRST site can't handle all the traffic, a team site won't be able to either.
I was thinking about a Google hosted website such as pages.google.com.
But now that I know that I would need permission, I wonder, if it would be still worth it?

Any opinions?


Please Note: I am not questioning FIRST's capability to host the Manual. The comments above are just my thoughts, and I do not plan to post the manual in an illegal/ ungracious professionalism way. Thank You
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:22
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Ditto on the torrent idea. Posting a tracker link prominently here on CD would certainly lessen the load on FIRST. We should see what Brandon thinks about doing this and making it an Announcement on the portal. Probably with a lot of caveats about it being an unofficial thing, use at your own risk, double check with FRC when the load dies down, etc. I imagine FIRST's concerns about mirrors are copyright and security driven. Security meaning paranoia about someone purposefully or accidentally corrupting the manual in a way that could mislead teams. Of course, FIRST corporate could solve all these problems by seeding their own torrent of the file and providing a link on the FIRST webpage to MD5 hashes of the official manuals. They could even give out TinyURL direct links to both files in the kickoff presentation to further lighten the load.

Honestly, I hope FIRST looks into this sort of solution some time soon here. The problem's only going to get worse as time goes on, and even with pre-released encrypted files, teams still want to grab unencrypted versions. If you don't start looking for distributed solutions like this, you'll just end up renting more and more bandwidth to handle the brief spurt of kick-off mania.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:23
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
2 - Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be), it is taking a little longer to have them prepared than originally anticipated. I am sure that FIRST is making every effort to ensure that each team will receive their tablets at, or shortly after, kick-off. Please make sure you have a clear space at your loading dock when the truck arrives. *


-dave
Does this mean you've finally managed to simplify things to ten, simple rules?
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:26
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Re: 2008 Documentation

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Originally Posted by M. Krass View Post
Does this mean you've finally managed to simplify things to ten, simple rules?
10 simple (yet overwhelmingly misinterpreted) rules for 2008?
I'm sure that's possible.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:26
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be)...

-dave
Are they written by the finger of God?
Cool! I always believed He had a connection to FIRST.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:27
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
1 - Remember, the FIRST manual is a copyrighted item. As such, you can not re-distribute or re-host it without FIRST's permission. In the past, they have been understandably reluctant to do so, so they can maintain some semblance of version control if the manual should need to be updated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertlex View Post
Someone could create a torrent for those initial copies. (and have it widely publicized at kickoffs or something)
As a response to your first comment Dave, version control does not matter for the first few hours for the most part. The big changes happen after a couple of hours when the Q&A's get filled up and people actually show copies of the rule books to their lawyers [both self proclaimed and professional]. At least for the first few hours FIRST should either upload a .torrent of the manual or let somebody do it themselves and take it down as soon as the first revision is made.

Pavan.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:36
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
2 - Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be), it is taking a little longer to have them prepared than originally anticipated.
Well it looks like I'm going to be carrying the manual into the shop this year.

Now more serious, we don't need to be worrying about if its going to come out early. I'm not worried, at least not until Friday night at 9:30. They will release it when they feel its the right time, hopefully with the rules being worded as clearly as possibly for as little confusion over the rules. I'm more excited about seeing the game and then looking at the manual.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:37
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post

* Really people, what is everyone getting all in a panic about?

Because we are bored, duh!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by billbo911 View Post
Are they written by the finger of God?
Cool! I always believed He had a connection to FIRST.

No but I hear Andy Baker has access to his notary stamp
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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:41
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Ahem.

Quote:
posted Wednesday, January 2, 2008 4:38 PM:

Greetings Teams:

FRC Game Hint #3
Vet hurdling FIRST tetra

Encryption Test for 2008 Manual
The 2008 Decryption Test has been posted at http://www.usfirst.org/frc_documents. Please follow the instructions on the Decryption page to make sure your computer has the proper software.

FRC will be posting the encrypted sections of the 2008 FRC Manual in approximately 24 hours.

Go Teams!
See!


-dave



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Unread 02-01-2008, 16:52
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Re: 2008 Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery View Post


2 - Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be), it is taking a little longer to have them prepared than originally anticipated. I am sure that FIRST is making every effort to ensure that each team will receive their tablets at, or shortly after, kick-off. Please make sure you have a clear space at your loading dock when the truck arrives. *


-dave

The Israeli teams are anxiously awaiting the arrival of the stone tablets.
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