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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-01-2008, 17:50
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

As a former licensed electrician I can tell you how how to fix it right.
Call a licensed electrician to review the problem and repair it for you. If you are truly the first owner of the house, and this was original, make sure NOT to call the same guy back(unless you have a home warranty, and ask them for someone else)
Additionally, I would give him an extra $25-50 to do a complete go through of the house. Taking out outlets to verify wiring.

In the 10years I wired and ran crews it was amazing the stuff we were called to repair for other contractors. The big thing here was to wire everything possible with the min wire (at that time 14G). We refused to do that and did lose our fair share of work for doing what we knew was right. I have been back on the side to several of those "other" houses just to replace wiring that has gone bad, or done dangerously wrong.

We lost a family friend and his daughter to a house fire...caused by a back wired outlet that overheated.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 17:57
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Most certainly, if the breaker is 20Amp, you should be using 12GA wire. No questions asked.

Also (I know, probably a really dumb question), but make sure there are no aluminum wires in your walls. My dryer plug burnt up recently, and when i opened the box (thank god it was metal), it was charred up, and the wires were aluminum, while the plug was copper.

If you do have aluminum wires, either replace them, or use the anti-oxidizing paste on all the connections.

Jacob
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Unread 02-01-2008, 18:05
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.divsys.com View Post
In the 10years I wired and ran crews it was amazing the stuff we were called to repair for other contractors.
I'm wondering if the recommendations to call a licensed electrician are really gonna be that helpful? seems you admit that a lot of them don't do the job properly.....

At least Ryan is getting a better idea now of what happened and what needs to be done to fix the problem. Hopefully he'll get qualified help. There's no guarantee of that, though.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 19:13
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

20Amp breaker, no wire is permitted to be less than 12 gauge, anywhere. Period.

Today, a dishwasher needs it's own dedicated circuit, as does the bathroom, but we're not trying to bring the house up to code. (which isn't a bad idea though)

A charred wire and rusted GFCI is your house's warning to you that there is something horribly wrong here, and it's giving you a chance to get it repaired correctly. Usually, you get only one chance.

Don't be foolish. If it was just a simple repair, or rewire something, I'd say go for it. Here we have symptoms that are downright scary and are never supposed to be seen - you need a pro to diagnose exactly what is going on so it doesn't burn down the house.

Don
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Unread 02-01-2008, 20:54
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

We got it fixed today. Here's the whole story, and how the wires were run... The bathroom was on it's own circuit breaker, but my dad shut off about 5 breakers that I was unaware of (although there was not GFCI outlet in the bathroom. I fixed that today without trouble). So here is how the circuit WAS run:
Main Wire to the house -> Main Breaker Outside Under Meter -> Breaker Panel inside house -> 20AMP Circuit Breaker -> 12AWG Wire to GFCI Outlet -> 16AWG Jumper -> 2 12AWG Wires that go to the dishwasher and the other electrical box with the light switch and the other outlet

Here is what happened... The 16AWG wire was a weak spot (obviously). Over 20 years, it supplied power to the dishwasher and a coffee pot, was well as a fluorescent light. It obviously heated up on a regular basis, based on the fact that the top of the GFCI outlet was rusted, where the heat escaped the box. Yesterday, the dishwasher finally killed the poor wire causing it to completely fail .

Here is what I did today:
I called a retired electrical engineer for Team Fusion that recently rewired his house due to Hurricane Katrina. He is a very bright man. He came over this afternoon and looked at it, and concluded the same thing as I did. We bought two new GFCI outlets today. The new ones have two holes in the back for each terminal that tighten with the screws (much better design than the ones from 20 years ago apparently) so we did not run a jumper at all. Now the wires are directly wired to the outlet without wire nuts. We tested it and everything worked as normal.

I checked the only other GFCI outlet in the house, and thankfully, it was wired correctly, no work done here...

I checked other outlets in the house, and they seemed to be wired correctly (although they were really cramped).

In our main bathroom, I tested each wire and found the main wire going back to the circuit breaker panel, attached it to the line in part of the new GFCI outlet, and attached the other wires to the Load side of the GFCI outlet. Everything works here as well, although we have a few mystery wires that I have no idea where they're going, but they do not supply electricity at all. (I have a feeling that it may go to the electrical box in the attic for the light).

What I have learned:
I learned how GFCI outlets work and how to wire them correctly.
I learned that even licensed electricians can be lazy.
In the kitchen, there are about two outlets per circuit breaker (for the higher loads of microwaves, toasters, coffee makers, refrigerator, etc...
Every room's ceiling lights have their own breaker (so you can have light when you're working )

Thank you everyone for the help and hopefully this is the last trouble we have with the electrical.
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  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-01-2008, 21:29
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

I have recently installed Arc-fault interuptor breakers, they are code for all bed rooms. they trip when an arc is detected on the circuit.

Glad you got your problem fixed, i would recomend getting a qualified electrician to look over the entire house. Also you can buy the NEC code book to see what the current code is. While you may not be required to bring it upto current code, i'd recommend doing it.

Also (my opinion) I'd recomend having a dedicated circuit for computer equipment, but definatly not on the same circuit as a dishwasher, fridge (dedicated by code), microwave, or other large appliance.
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  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-01-2008, 23:04
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

And always remember to practice "LOTO" - Lock Out Tag Out when working on these circuits.
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Unread 02-01-2008, 23:09
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Ryan,

I suggest that you still get either a licensed electrician or a home inspector to come verify that the work was done correctly.

You say that the former EE from Fusion was a "very bright" man, but that doesn't mean that he's knowledgeable about the requirements set out by building codes.

I have a colleague who is a very good jack-of-all-trades. He did the wiring in the room that was added on and still called a licensed electrician to sign off on the work.

And, as someone who is going to be putting new lights into the bathroom, rather than getting him to come do it, you'd better believe that I will have a licensed electrician come out. I'm even considering calling the home inspector that reviewed my place while it was in escrow just to verify everything.

Just something to think about,
indieFan
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Unread 02-01-2008, 23:31
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Threads like this make me wonder how anyone survived the 20th century
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-01-2008, 00:43
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by indieFan View Post
Ryan,

I suggest that you still get either a licensed electrician or a home inspector to come verify that the work was done correctly.

You say that the former EE from Fusion was a "very bright" man, but that doesn't mean that he's knowledgeable about the requirements set out by building codes.

I have a colleague who is a very good jack-of-all-trades. He did the wiring in the room that was added on and still called a licensed electrician to sign off on the work.

And, as someone who is going to be putting new lights into the bathroom, rather than getting him to come do it, you'd better believe that I will have a licensed electrician come out. I'm even considering calling the home inspector that reviewed my place while it was in escrow just to verify everything.

Just something to think about,
indieFan
"Home inspectors" are a waste of time and money. What is REALLY best is to call an electrician, a plumber, and a HVAC professional and have them each look at their own things. Home inspectors are generally someone who took a class or two and a quiz and got a "certification". Someone who is lisenced in a trade (an electrician, a plumber, and a HVAC professional) Are lisenced and very well trained and have proper experience at what to look for. Most home inspectors will tell you to do something that is unnessisary or wasteful.

-Mike
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Unread 03-01-2008, 06:47
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

After working a lot with electical(electrical engineer in a plant and a licensed builder), all the chared wires that I have come across that develop overtime are from a loose connection and not from the circuit being overloaded. I would change the breaker back to the correct size of 15 amps and replace the chared wires and outlets. I didn't have time to read all the posts, just scanned them, so there are no warrentees on my advice.
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Unread 03-01-2008, 10:32
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Re: Home Electrical Wiring, Experts Advice Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
After working a lot with electical(electrical engineer in a plant and a licensed builder), all the chared wires that I have come across that develop overtime are from a loose connection and not from the circuit being overloaded. I would change the breaker back to the correct size of 15 amps and replace the chared wires and outlets. I didn't have time to read all the posts, just scanned them, so there are no warrentees on my advice.
Id second this.

Recently got a smoked wire at the circuit breaker due to poor screw contact.

In addition, solid-core wires which are bent and carrying large currents crack and buckle after many years (say 20+?) so always use good quality wires and non-flammable trunking, they emit a smell, turn black, but do not go into flames
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