pic: More CAD insanity

loading photo ...

[robostangs548]

nothing eigh...... we will just have to see We have a little brainstorming cooking up a pretty nice idea, but we will have to see what the game is before we can even start thinking about that

[robostangs548]

Oh btw i forgot that is a sweet cad dude, nice job, you have "Chops" lol

[popo308]

Add a big sim (assuming its in the KOP) to that gear box so you have 2 small cims, 1 FP, and 1 large cim then i'm positive you will not be pushed around..

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by popo308

Add a big sim (assuming its in the KOP) to that gear box so you have 2 small cims, 1 FP, and 1 large cim then i'm positive you will not be pushed around..

This doesn't make sense. You are already overpowered with the 2 small cims and FPs. Once you can slip your wheels adding power won't do anything. I can name a few teams who've learned this the hard way.

[Richard McClellan]

Wow, I have to say, that's a sweet design, as is almost everything that you post here. But I'm curious, is there any reason why you don't include the Dewalt gearboxes in any of your designs? It just seems like the weight trade off is too great to pass up.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

This doesn't make sense. You are already overpowered with the 2 small cims and FPs. Once you can slip your wheels adding power won't do anything. I can name a few teams who've learned this the hard way.

It'd help you in high gear, but that's an awful lot of work and weight for a very very small benefit.

[alex1699]

that is SEXY!

Originally Posted by popo308

Add a big sim (assuming its in the KOP) to that gear box so you have 2 small cims, 1 FP, and 1 large cim then i'm positive you will not be pushed around..

How about I accept the level of insanity that this design is already? Honestly, I'm of the position that 3 drive motors per gearbox is insane overkill, and is really quite pointless. The two designs that I've posted came from a discussion with a team member. We'll only build something remotely like this if we plan on defensive play.

Originally Posted by richardmcc2

Wow, I have to say, that's a sweet design, as is almost everything that you post here. But I'm curious, is there any reason why you don't include the Dewalt gearboxes in any of your designs? It just seems like the weight trade off is too great to pass up.

Most of the time for a drivetrain, my reduction numbers needed for the desired speeds require a custom setup. If it were possible to get a more reasonable ratio out of the deWalt's, I might use them. Plus, I've had good experience with things I've made, and bad with pre made parts (banebots).

[EricH]

Originally Posted by popo308

Add a big sim (assuming its in the KOP) to that gear box so you have 2 small cims, 1 FP, and 1 large cim then i'm positive you will not be pushed around..

The ONLY gearbox I know of that had more than 3 motors was 118 last year. That was 6 motors (all the CIMs) for a 2-speed swerve. Most teams count 3 as the max or overkill. (I know 330 has never had more than 2 motors in a gearbox, and for many years only had one.)

And it's not how many motors you have, it's the traction and torque conversion that matters. I know of a case where a 2-motor drive pulled a 4-motor one around (pulling unintentional, the team would have preferred to push).

[M. Mellott]

Using the tread modules, it's a simple-yet-solid design...getting into a pushing match against this beast would be ugly! Very nice CAD work to boot!

Could you give us an estimated total weight, as well a mimimal breakdown on the overall weight, meaning 1. Outback tread modules, 2. Gearboxes w/motors, and 3. All other frame members?

Originally Posted by M. Mellott

Using the tread modules, it's a simple-yet-solid design...getting into a pushing match against this beast would be ugly! Very nice CAD work to boot!

Could you give us an estimated total weight, as well a mimimal breakdown on the overall weight, meaning 1. Outback tread modules, 2. Gearboxes w/motors, and 3. All other frame members?

Previous iterations of the Outback tracks weren't fun to defend against, so I imagine this would be even better.

The track modules are 9 pounds per, including belts, standoffs, and all that. Inner Chassis: Somewhere around 3ish pounds? I forget... The gearboxes are close to 10 with motors.

[pakratt1991]

Wow, these are sexy!

I'll say it again that thes tracks never slipped on the carpet and this would only increase the performance.

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by EricH

The ONLY gearbox I know of that had more than 3 motors was 118 last year. That was 6 motors (all the CIMs) for a 2-speed swerve. Most teams count 3 as the max or overkill. (I know 330 has never had more than 2 motors in a gearbox, and for many years only had one.)

And it's not how many motors you have, it's the traction and torque conversion that matters. I know of a case where a 2-motor drive pulled a 4-motor one around (pulling unintentional, the team would have preferred to push).

118 actually called their crazy 6 motor gearbox 'fish and chips' because it had 2 fisher price motors, and 4 small CIMs, all going into one dewalt gearbox (those dewalts can definitely take a beating). They actually still got pushed around with their 4 wheel crab drive system.

I think there's something that makes a 6 wheel drive better than a 4 wheel drive when you look at dynamic events, because assuming you lower the center wheel, 6 wheel kind of seems to "stays on the ground" more frequently, thus the maximum normal force is always applied fairly evenly to each wheel.

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by pakratt1991

Wow, these are sexy!

I'll say it again that thes tracks never slipped on the carpet and this would only increase the performance.

I think you may be overestimating the traction here; if the tracks don't ever slip then you can''t turn, and even if you could turn (by the frame flexing or something like that), you would draw massive amounts of current. A cim has a stall current of 133 amps and the FP stalls at, IIRC, 63 amps. The largest breaker you can use is 40A and the FP will smoke if run near 40A draw regularly. Now, breakers don't pop instantly, but that is still a bad situation to be in.

Brecoflex themselves actually say that red Linatex has a mu of 1.6, and it is in their interest to report a high number*. 1.6 is very, very high, but many robots can put out enough power (at least for a short time) to make it slip. Roughtop incline conveyor belting has been reported to possess a mu of 1.3, thus, you are getting about 23% more traction than a robot running common materials on a traction wheel. So, the traction is quite high, but definitely not 'unslippable.'


*I am not implying that they Brecoflex is falsifying data, I am merely saying that they wouldn't report a mu lower than it actually is, due to their financial interest in the matter.