How does descoring work?

[Gertlex]

Use another ball to descore a ball?

Edit: As seen in the Arena rules, the Home stretches are only a quarter of the field each. Go past your opponents finish line and you're free to return to >6' height. You can stop and drive around in a given quarter of the field, as long as you don't go back across a line.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by Ragnarokae

Is that measurement, or were you able to calculate that? If it was calculation, I would really like to know how for future reference.

Posted this in a couple other threads today.

given a trackball center at (0,0)
given a trackball contact point with a rail at (16,y) (the rails are 32" apart)
given the trackball is 20" and assuming it remains approximately spherical, then...

x^2 + y^2 = r^2
16^2 + y^2 = 400
y^2 = 400 - 256
y = 12

So the contact point for the rails will be 12" below the center of the ball. This means that between the rails, the bottom of the ball should be 8" below them, and thus 2" below the maximum allowed height of a robot in the opponent zone. However, this is in an ideal world where the rails are infinitely thin and the ball is perfectly sperical. Since the rails are 1.5" wide and the ball will deform some, the ball may be slightly higher than where I computed it to be, and the contact space for a robot will be very, very small.

Glad to hear someone did the actual measurement and it was close

Here's a diagram:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...4&d=1199558995

[dbell]

Originally Posted by Ragnarokae

Is that measurement, or were you able to calculate that? If it was calculation, I would really like to know how for future reference.

We measured that at the kickoff.

But it is possible to figure it out. The overpass bars are 32 inches apart.(the arena 6.2.2) The balls are 40" in diameter.(the game piece 6.3) And the overpass is 78 inches high.
I'll let you do the math.

[LordTalps]

Originally Posted by Ragnarokae

Is that measurement, or were you able to calculate that? If it was calculation, I would really like to know how for future reference.

Circular relationship, err, function for a circle. X^2 + Y^2 = R^2

Radius of ball -- 20"
length of overpass -- 32", believedly.

16^2 + y^2 = 20^2
y = 12. 12 is the height from the center of the sphere to the overpass.

20 - 12 = 8" the ball dips down at maximum, giving us only 2" of impact room to play with.

edit: b10. bleh.

[Ragnarokae]

Here is a link to another thread with a math proof regarding the height of the ball on the overpass. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...t=60666&page=4

We have approx. 2 in or less to work with...

[Ragnarokae]

Sorry everyone, I forgot to hit refresh, and thus missed LordTalps' post.

[Ty Tremblay]

You cannot be over 6' high in your opponent's home stretch, so you must go under the overpass in order to reach high enough to descore the ball. BUT, when you go under the overpass, you cannot touch the ball because you would then break the plane of the opponent's finishline, causing you to recieve a penalty.

This seems like a vicious circle to me.

[Ragnarokae]

Originally Posted by icdumbpeeps305

You cannot be over 6' high in your opponent's home stretch, so you must go under the overpass in order to reach high enough to descore the ball. BUT, when you go under the overpass, you cannot touch the ball because you would then break the plane of the opponent's finishline, causing you to recieve a penalty.

This seems like a vicious circle to me.

Well, we have about 2 inches of space that the ball will hang down below the plane. Still, two inches is not a lot of space...

[jgannon]

It's good to see that there is potentially a way to legally descore. In any case, I'm really hoping that this isn't the intent of these rules. As a referee, it's going to be insanely difficult to tell if a robot was at 72" or 73" when it knocked out the ball.

[LordTalps]

Originally Posted by jgannon

It's good to see that there is potentially a way to legally descore. In any case, I'm really hoping that this isn't the intent of these rules. As a referee, it's going to be insanely difficult to tell if a robot was at 72" or 73" when it knocked out the ball.

Yep. There's some guesswork in the case, and you'd have to be very hopeful the ref didn't decide to penalize you just for coming close to the height limit. That or have some very good evidence that you didn't/can't.

[skrew-ball]

ok, my team is here discussing this. would the risk of a penalty at end game be worth it? a 10 point penalty and a 12 or 24 point denial. The height penalty is also done by the break of the height plane, not the time out of it. So you could extend out, knock off the 2 balls and drive around in the opposing lane, preventing any future occurance. -10 on you, -?? on them minimum of -12 on them. Thus giving you a minimum of a 2 point advantage, increasing in 12 point increments.

Also, couldn't you score more than 10 points to offset the penalty?

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by skrew-ball

ok, my team is here discussing this. would the risk of a penalty at end game be worth it? a 10 point penalty and a 12 or 24 point denial. The height penalty is also done by the break of the height plane, not the time out of it. So you could extend out, knock off the 2 balls and drive around in the opposing lane, preventing any future occurance. -10 on you, -?? on them minimum of -12 on them. Thus giving you a minimum of a 2 point advantage, increasing in 12 point increments.

Also, couldn't you score more than 10 points to offset the penalty?

There was some discussion about this idea last year... if it was worth it to interfere in the opponent's home zone, take a couple penalties, but keep the opponent from lifting. The general consensus was that intentionally taking penalties would be a yellow-cardable offense. I don't necessarily agree with this (I like the idea of fouling to stop the clock in basketball, or taking a delay-of-game in football to give your punter more room to kick), but that seems to be the prevailing opinion. However, this year there is only one instance of a yellow card being mentioned in the manual, and no explanation of how the card system works, so it's hard to say if there will actually be yellow cards. Maybe intentional penalties will be acceptable this year?

[skrew-ball]

So at this point I assume it is ok

p.s. others, the yellow card is for not moving when bumped
after 6 seconds

[LordTalps]

It's a lot of point counting, unless the rules somehow get changed or opened up for more interpretation.

[Ragnarokae]

Originally Posted by LordTalps

It's a lot of point counting, unless the rules somehow get changed or opened up for more interpretation.

Yeah, one of the speakers on the Kickoff broadcast said the the refs were in for a rough time. The refs have to go through an actual course and tests before they can actually referee.